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Skidge
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:06 PM UTC  
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Logged-in character information is saved as session data. So if you can already do it using different browsers or private browsing mode or whatever, then you'll still be able to do it in S3.

EDIT: Incidentally, why oh why am I slogging through the S3 items system rewrite on a Sunday. It's Sunday.[/p]


Thank goodness, I just don't know what I'd do if I couldn't go off into my little corner and talk to myself, or have eight-to-nine-person dialogues with um. Just one other writer.

It is a sickness.

Sunday is best for sloggings, yesssssssss.

At least fifteen other people agree with me. But they are all me. So make of that what you will.

ETA: Octologues? Noventalogues? Conversations.


 
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LydiaDefountain
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:11 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe



Logged-in character information is saved as session data. So if you can already do it using different browsers or private browsing mode or whatever, then you'll still be able to do it in S3.

EDIT: Incidentally, why oh why am I slogging through the S3 items system rewrite on a Sunday. It's Sunday.



Yay was worried that the main log in handle with sub characters thing idea might cause trouble with multiple logins and opening a few sessions to play out the borderline multiple personality syndrome some of us seem to have with our rp.

And I have no idea why you are working on that today... But then I'm in retail and monday and tuesday can be more more stable weekend as it were


 
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Trowa
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:19 PM UTC  
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Maybe I'm slow, but does this mean we can have our alts in different places at the same time? For example, doing two scenes at once in two different places with other people? (Why would you torture yourself this way! But, I know people do it.)


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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LydiaDefountain
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:24 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Trowa

Maybe I'm slow, but does this mean we can have our alts in different places at the same time? For example, doing two scenes at once in two different places with other people? (Why would you torture yourself this way! But, I know people do it.)



Well we can do that now. You just have to use something with different session data, aka private browsing mode. dropping the www. for one tab and the other with it. Things like that.

With the main player account you log into with sub accounts for alts idea's The question was if it would still be possible... basically that you can log into the main account multiple times 'from various places' or however the computer interprets the different sessions way people currently run their alts.


 
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Skidge
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:34 PM UTC  
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Quote by: LydiaDefountain

Quote by: Trowa

Maybe I'm slow, but does this mean we can have our alts in different places at the same time? For example, doing two scenes at once in two different places with other people? (Why would you torture yourself this way! But, I know people do it.)



Well we can do that now. You just have to use something with different session data, aka private browsing mode. dropping the www. for one tab and the other with it. Things like that.

With the main player account you log into with sub accounts for alts idea's The question was if it would still be possible... basically that you can log into the main account multiple times 'from various places' or however the computer interprets the different sessions way people currently run their alts.



I don't know what you're talking about, Trowa, Lydia. Nobody does that. Who would be that crazy? Wink


 
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LydiaDefountain
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:37 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Skidge



I don't know what you're talking about, Trowa, Lydia. Nobody does that. Who would be that crazy? Wink



I have no idea.

Hides the multiple tabs she has going right now.


 
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Trowa
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: LydiaDefountain

Well we can do that now.


Right, I know, I misworded my question in the present tense when I meant to put it in the future tense.

Quote by: LydiaDefountain

With the main player account you log into with sub accounts for alts idea's The question was if it would still be possible... basically that you can log into the main account multiple times 'from various places' or however the computer interprets the different sessions way people currently run their alts.


So, right now the impression I'm getting is: we'll have a drop-down menu for our alts to switch between them. Every time we switch, we go wherever that alt is - so instead of the alt following the main, the main follows the alt.

Which also begs the question if all our alts would be 'logged in' when the main is logged in? Or would their 'log in' state change when you switch alts? That is, assuming we'll still even have a log-in state indicator next to the screen names. In other words, could you tell when someone else is switching their characters on you when you're playing with them? "Oh, Spark went orange, but she's still in the room, she must be playing on another character." That kind of thing. Am I thinking about this too hard?


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Count Sessine
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 10:20 PM UTC  
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Long habit embeds those LotGD preconceptions deep. I've struggled with imagining how it's going to be in the brave new world -- and I've found it's very helpful to stop using the words 'main' and 'alt'. Completely. There will be no mains. No alts.

Think in terms of 'me' (which is the account level) and 'my characters -- some of whom may be more important to me than others, sure, but they all have equal status as far as the game is concerned, they're all characters...' then it gets a bit clearer.

Or not. YMMV.

But it's worth a try!


 
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Trowa
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 10:46 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Think in terms of 'me' (which is the account level) and 'my characters


Excellent point, and I don't mean to carry this thread further away from the topic into an alt debate - we've had plenty of those before in this forum, some long before I joined. I'm purely interested in the mechanics of how this will work. I think I answered my own question in my last post: you follow your character. That just makes more sense than what I had thought of before of the character following you - which I don't know where I got that from, but maybe says a lot about my thought processes.

I'm just trying to understand what is going on when you switch characters. Will all your other characters be like puppets with their strings cut? Will there be an indicator that visually signifies "this character's narrator has moved elsewhere?"

People want to play multiple characters in multiple scenes at the same time, I get that, and my opinions on the matter are moot. But from what I understand in this thread so far, there will be one user interface that allows you to select which character you play with, one at a time. What I don't understand is how will logging into your one account from multiple browsers/tabs/privacy mode/whathaveyou come into this? Can that even be done? Did I misunderstand Lydia's question and CMJ's answer? Confused


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Ada
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 10:50 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Long habit embeds those LotGD preconceptions deep. I've struggled with imagining how it's going to be in the brave new world -- and I've found it's very helpful to stop using the words 'main' and 'alt'. Completely. There will be no mains. No alts.

Think in terms of 'me' (which is the account level) and 'my characters -- some of whom may be more important to me than others, sure, but they all have equal status as far as the game is concerned, they're all characters...' then it gets a bit clearer.

Or not. YMMV.

But it's worth a try!



Question still valid, though! The game would have to have a different way of representing characters online than it has now. Like if I want to log on to Ada to poke about in the jungle, I would really prefer that I don't log in seven other people all at once. For one, it seems like a waste. But also it would mean that if you just wanted to poke about in the jungle on an alt no one knows about, you'd still show up on the List or whatever on all your characters, and people might start trying to chat with you. I personally wouldn't mind this, but I am sure some people would. What I'd mind more is that then people could just look at the online list and start to notice patterns. "Oh, when Spark logs on, Dodger is always online, so they must be...", etc.

Same for the writing of scenes - if you are tabbing between two characters, and the online indicators next to your comments work the same way, would it make it look like you left or logged out every time you tabbed? It already shows you as away if you flip between full-screen banter and full-screen story, which makes sense from a mechanical point of view (you're not in the same chat space anymore), but otherwise not so much (you're still there, after all).
If it works as it does now, with the coloured indicators, and it shows one character as away every time you switch to the other one, it would be very easy for people to work out whose characters are whose based on how the lights flash.

Edit: whoops well, Trowa beat me. (Sorry Trowa.) But I'll leave this as it was.


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 11:28 PM UTC  
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This shows that the coloured chat indicators are going to have to be re-thought a bit... along with ten million other big and little factors!

Here's my own wild-assed guess* about them: "logged in" refers to an account, now, not a character, so it doesn't make sense to show that next to a character's posts -- although it would make sense to show it for posts in the OOC locations that would use your Banter Handle.

On the other hand, the "is-typing" indicator refers to a character, so that should still light up for the character who is actually typing.

The "is-here" indicator isn't particularly accurate even now, as Ada points out, so people can't have come to rely on it. I suspect it could very easily be discontinued, especially since the definition of "is here" will be getting more complicated. Not really worth the trouble.

--
* I'm just trying to reason it out from a system design point of view based on very incomplete data, so I could be entirely wrong. This same caveat applies to anything I have said or will say in this thread!


 
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Docenspiel
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 11:50 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Trowa

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Think in terms of 'me' (which is the account level) and 'my characters


Excellent point, and I don't mean to carry this thread further away from the topic into an alt debate - we've had plenty of those before in this forum, some long before I joined. I'm purely interested in the mechanics of how this will work. I think I answered my own question in my last post: you follow your character. That just makes more sense than what I had thought of before of the character following you - which I don't know where I got that from, but maybe says a lot about my thought processes.

I'm just trying to understand what is going on when you switch characters. Will all your other characters be like puppets with their strings cut? Will there be an indicator that visually signifies "this character's narrator has moved elsewhere?"

People want to play multiple characters in multiple scenes at the same time, I get that, and my opinions on the matter are moot. But from what I understand in this thread so far, there will be one user interface that allows you to select which character you play with, one at a time. What I don't understand is how will logging into your one account from multiple browsers/tabs/privacy mode/whathaveyou come into this? Can that even be done? Did I misunderstand Lydia's question and CMJ's answer? Confused


That can actually already be done with the current character= account system. You can long onto the same account multiple times, but the first one to load a new page will override any other attempted page loads. But I digress.

I'm thinking logging in will send you to a sort of account hub page, with all your characters, SP and account preferences and such. You then select a character and go to wherever that character was last. Then, logging in on another tab/browser will just send you back to the account page, allowing you to choose another of your characters. And when logging off a character, it will send you back to the account screen, where you would have to log off again to log off completely. Maybe the switch-character tab will have a Full Log-off button as well. And a Log-off Character and Switch button. That would solve the status indicator problem. If you switch characters without logging them off, they're Somewhere Else, just like if they entered the Bank from an Outpost. Maybe set a lower time until forced log-out for them.


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Count Sessine
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 12:08 AM UTC  
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What I don't understand is how will logging into your one account from multiple browsers/tabs/privacy mode/whathaveyou come into this? Can that even be done? Did I misunderstand Lydia's question and CMJ's answer? Confused


As I understand it, the answer is No, multiple logins for different characters can't be done. There are too many technical issues. We're getting task switching, not multi-threading. But it'll be fast task switching, almost as fast as switching focus between two different tabs or windows on your computer.

CMJ is a technical wizard, so it is maybe possible that there might be later refinements to make this even nicer, such as, oh... for instance, getting an alert if something happens in another chat space where your other character is RPing, the one that doesn't currently have your attention... but even without that, I think it's going to be pretty slick right out of the box.

Characters won't be logged in or logged out, they'll just be in or out of focus in the browser window as their session array is swapped in and out. So, here's a question that just hit me: how will beds work? Maybe there'll also have to be an indicator for "awake / sleeping"! Which, I guess, would be kind of the equivalent of logging in and out, except there'd be no password involved.

EDIT: Oh... forced logout! (How I hate you! But you're one of those necessary evils...) I suspect only the account level is going to be subject to forced logouts. If a player isn't doing anything with any of their characters for however-long, then it's reasonable to log out the account to free up server resources. Otherwise, though, characters should just stay where you left them until you pick them up again.


 
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Clueless
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 12:22 AM UTC  
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What I want is to create, within the core engine, a sort of "Gaiden Mode," wherein you can fight monsters, get loot, buy weapons and level up, but lacking any plot or storyline. So basically I'm trying to create LotGD within the S3 engine. That's my first goal.



Speaking of the "Gaiden Mode', could there be an exact opposite? I mean 100% no effect on game mechanic anything, a player can go into a mode where they can travel without any monster fights, but also without being able to see titans or crates, and they can't do anything in any outpost other than their original one. Other than go into a building for RP. No ability to see threat or the walls or eBoys prices or anything at all. Essentially coms tenting to the map and places while retaining banter.

The reason I ask is, of course, I am one of those guys, the ones who do nothing but Bastard ranks, and sometimes I want to go RP somewhere else, like in a place, and it's just so damn annoying if I end up on the boat one or four times just trying to get there thanks to travel monsters. I've spent several chronospheres getting to a place only 5 klicks away from where I've started before more times than I can remember, and it gets really old. Especially when on a phone.

Eugh.



Quote by: Count+Sessine

This shows that the coloured chat indicators are going to have to be re-thought a bit... along with ten million other big and little factors!

Here's my own wild-assed guess* about them: "logged in" refers to an account, now, not a character, so it doesn't make sense to show that next to a character's posts -- although it would make sense to show it for posts in the OOC locations that would use your Banter Handle.

On the other hand, the "is-typing" indicator refers to a character, so that should still light up for the character who is actually typing.

The "is-here" indicator isn't particularly accurate even now, as Ada points out, so people can't have come to rely on it. I suspect it could very easily be discontinued, especially since the definition of "is here" will be getting more complicated. Not really worth the trouble.



I really really have to disagree with the discontinuing of the "is-here" completely. There are times when people log in, to a place or maybe an outpost, and don't post a single thing in story or banter. The list and indicator are the only way to tell that they are there, but if someone else starts posting they'll hop right in. The opposite is also true, where people will have been posting in story and then just vanish without saying a single damn thing. Not vanish as in lost connection or got dragged away, they'll just navigate away from an in progress scene without so much as a single hint that they're not going to be replying to subsequent posts. Horrible RP practice, I've waited through giving time for replies and one never coming countless times. The status indicator, while wonky, is generally very accurate, and is my primary indication that I've just been stood up by someone with zero courtesy vice something having happened that rendered their narrator unable to give me notification.

Notification of a character being active, and not just the account, is an awesome feature that I'd hate to see get chopped. As far as online/on another character, I'd keep it essentially how it is now. If a player isn't using that character, they should show as offline. Even if the player is swapping in. Though the option for another color, optionally set by the player, would be nice for online-but-'inactive'.


 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 02:10 AM UTC  


Re: status indicators;

(Disclaimer: this is kind of a vague idea i'm trying to put into words, may not be comprehensible.)
How about changing the meaning from "here right now" to "present"? I think that an indicator for "here" seems to imply that someone is paying active attention to the chatspace, and "somewhere else" suggests that they've left the room to do something else. This is the root of the switching-between-alts problem: if you appear as "somewhere else" other players can conclude that you are a secret alt, dear god (as well as the problem of being logged onto all of your characters at once, and showing up as online everywhere). I suggest changing the character-specific indicators to a system of "present" (which does not necessarily imply active attention, only a physical presence), "typing," "AFK," and "inactive." Instead of having characters switch to "somewhere else" when you change characters, they'll stay set to "present" for a limited time (maybe something like ten minutes?), and then time out to "inactive". They'll also remain "inactive" as long as they're a) not in a particular chatspace, or b) haven't been actively used. So your characters will not all go green or orange as soon as you log in; they'll remain grey until you actually start doing things with them.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 03:39 AM UTC  
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Oh holy shit I go away and come back and everyone is talking about what's not going to happen.

Look. Anything you can do, logging-in-multiple-characters-wise, right now, you'll still be able to do in S3.

When you come to the site, you'll enter your email and your password, and then you'll be taken immediately to a list of all your characters. You click on a character, and resume playing from wherever that character left off - just like we do now. When you want to play a different character, you'll click "Change Character," and that takes you back to the list of all your characters.

The only difference will be that you'll have an account, and inside that account you'll have characters - instead of having an account per character. One email address, one password, multiple characters.

Different characters in different places at the same time - you can do that already, so yes.
No, there's no technical distinction between alts and mains here in S2, nor will there be in S3. The game doesn't know or care which character you consider your "main."
No, we're not going to have an indicator that says "This character's narrator has moved elsewhere." There's no reason to do that. A character will be online, offline, away, the same way we do it now.
I don't even know where you guys are getting the "All of my characters will show as logged in when I select a single one of them to play" thing. No. Why would. I don't even. What.
Online/offline/away indicators all show the status of the character. If I'm logged into CavemanJoe on Chromium and TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys on Firefox, then both of those characters are logged in, regardless of which one I happen to be looking at at any given second. If I log out of TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys in Firefox, then TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys logs out and his indicator turns red.

Clueless: Gaiden Mode means nothing to you guys, it's a technical milestone only. It's my "Playing about to see if the combat system is fun all the way to the end and if the backend systems can adequately express what I want them to do" experiment. Like when developers finish a model of a new game character, they make them do a silly little dance just to make sure the animation system works okay, before they start work on the actual game.


 
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Trowa
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 03:44 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Online/offline/away indicators all show the status of the character. If I'm logged into CavemanJoe on Chromium and TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys on Firefox, then both of those characters are logged in, regardless of which one I happen to be looking at at any given second. If I log out of TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys in Firefox, then TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys logs out and his indicator turns red.


That's what I don't get, though. If we only get one account, are you saying we'll be able to log into that same account from multiple browsers so we can play on multiple characters?


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CavemanJoe
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 04:00 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Trowa

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Online/offline/away indicators all show the status of the character. If I'm logged into CavemanJoe on Chromium and TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys on Firefox, then both of those characters are logged in, regardless of which one I happen to be looking at at any given second. If I log out of TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys in Firefox, then TotallyNotCavemanJoeYouGuys logs out and his indicator turns red.


That's what I don't get, though. If we only get one account, are you saying we'll be able to log into that same account from multiple browsers so we can play on multiple characters?



Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes.


 
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Trowa
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 04:25 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes.


THANK YOU, SIR. I'm starting to get a clearer picture of how this will work.

Earlier in this thread we batted around the idea that the handle from your account is what will appear in the OOC Channel. Will this actually happen, or will it be your character you've logged in to? From your recent statements I'm starting to think it'll be the latter. Also from this:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Yes, that WOULD be neat.


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Clueless
 Monday, September 02 2013 @ 05:19 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe


Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes.



Wahoo!



The other thing is totally icing anyway.


And I definitely like that indicator plan.


 
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