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CavemanJoe
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 04:57 AM UTC (Read 7920 times)  
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Should we have a global Banter chat, rather than having an individual area for each Outpost?


 
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Azhron
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 06:31 AM UTC  
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I may be wrong, but I think it would be impossible to keep up with the conversation. It's sometimes hard with just five people. For me, anyway


 
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LadyRavenSkye
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 06:33 AM UTC  
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No, I don't think it should be.

I will only agree to this if you make the banter chat available from any page, like an internal chatting engine network of sorts. Oh oh! and make it java, and then I could be out in the jungle fighting, and still be chatting in the banter.
Of course, this is an extreme idea, but I think it would be cool to be able to still banter with fellow narrators if I am, lets say, at my dwelling.


 
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Jon Bishop
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 06:37 AM UTC  
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Would it hurt to have both somehow? I think it would be nice to have a global banter, so people aren't limited by what outpost they are in to talk to others. It isn't exactly fun if you get caught in CC404 and can't talk to anyone. However, it's nice to have separated channels for each outpost, too, because people can talk out of character about a scene happening in that outpost. Also, if there was global banter, it would get overrun too easily. The banter channel is much more popular in NewHome than it is in Pleasantville. I'd hate to want to talk about a scene I'm doing in Pleasantville, just to have the conversation shoved off of the page in 5 minutes.

So..I hate to be that guy on the middle ground, but I think a global banter and individual banter for each outpost would be nice to have at the same time, if that is possible.


 
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Derander
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 06:37 AM UTC  
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Don't we have that already in Location Four?

But no, not really in favour of this.


 
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Pod
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 06:40 AM UTC  
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I was originally all for global banter, but looking at how popular banter chat has turned out to be, I think it's more important to maintain Outpost-based banter. Banter chat performs numerous functions (OOC chat, rookie Q&A, etc.), but the localization keeps it from getting overwhelming in terms of quantity and speed.

I'm not necessarily opposed to global banter, but the thought of three chat levels kind of makes my head hurt, and I'm having trouble imagining an implementation that wouldn't be confusing (though I readily concede the latter may be due to a lack of imagination on my part). What I can imagine all too well is certain obnoxious types* broadcasting themselves Island-wide, and I'm not super enthusiastic about that.

*Not to be confused with TYPES.


 
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Marly
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 07:19 AM UTC  
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I know that some people want a global chat, but I'm really not one of them.

I was at first not thrilled with the Banter, but it's grown on me like a surly cat. It's useful in the outposts to chat with other players, answer questions, and make requests. When Onslaught started up again, I used it to chat with others about outpost defenses and threat levels; a global chat would have been useful for finding out how the other outposts were doing faster, but that might be me overreaching myself again. All I really had to worry about was one outpost, and the Banter really helped with that.

I can only assume that this is easier when you're dealing with one (sometimes very busy) outpost's banter. I can't imagine trying to keep up with NH and KT and IC and PV and everyone-in-the-Jungle-or-whatnot chatting all at once on the same space. How would I be able to talk to my friends OOC and actually enjoy the conversation rather than race through what we need to say because so many others are talking that it's getting lost?


 
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Syd Lexic
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 07:12 PM UTC  
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I saw in the poll a statement about filtering so as to only see the current outpost's banter, but would it be feasible to have an option to only read or post to the current outpost's banter? I know I would feel bad if I knew I was going to be cluttering the global channel with drivel... or, with kittania a couple days ago, we had some madcap rp going on in the banter channel that just wasn't fit for story, but simply to be off the wall in ways that were totally out of character... but having that sort of thing broadcast over the whole island would be too much. Pages would scroll by at a speed that made the grounds look a slug race.

Just my thoughts...


 
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Sloth
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 10:32 PM UTC  
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A global banter chat that had multiple rooms would probably be workable... If we're all in one room, though, I suspect that it would either go by too fast because everyone is using it, or too slow, because no one wants to spam everyone with drivel, kinda like Location Four. Probably the former, though.

Perhaps keep it so that every outpost has it's own banter, but you can access those banter channels from anywhere? I am, of course, always happy to provide ideas that involve lots more work (for other people).


 
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Tyr
 Thursday, June 17 2010 @ 10:56 PM UTC  
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I like the idea of a global OOC chat. I think it would be a great way to build community - you'd know who was on, who was available. You could discuss issues that affect the whole island, like Titans or Onslaught. You could say "hey, anyone want to race shopping carts? We're doing that in Pville!" Or "Rookie Tea in NH! Come say hi!"

It would also be helpful for non RP reasons. If you have a question, it could be answered by anyone in the chat, rather than anyone in the outpost. It greatly increases the chance of someone answering your question. If you're an non-RPer saying hi, you can say hi to every other non RPer on the island, not just the ones in your outpost. Now, granted, the majority of new players, RPers or not, will be in NewHome. And the majority of optimized players will be in Pville. But still. And folks in 404 or NP would feel just as connected as those in NH or Kitt.

Now. The downside. There have been scenes (like buff parties) where there are a million people talking at once. Things get really hard to follow, and people like me clam up. A global OOC chat could be an absolute mess. Questions would get lost in the shuffle, people going afk might not get noticed, hellos might not get acknowledged. People would be trying to coordinate/talking about/commenting on scenes all over the island.

I still like the idea. I just don't know how it would turn out in practice.

I think the most important thing is that OOC chat be just as accessible as IC. Which means that if there isn't global OOC chat, it needs to be accessible from the comms tent. I want OOC chat. I want to use it to welcome new players and answer their questions, as well as chat with my fellow players - some of whom I will never interact with off island. And I don't want to have to hang out in NH all the time to do that. I have other stuff to do - RP, DKing, building. Sure, there's Location 4, but it is not the first place rookies go with questions, until someone sends them there.

Hope that all makes sense.


 
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Zolotisty
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 03:47 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Azhron

I may be wrong, but I think it would be impossible to keep up with the conversation. It's sometimes hard with just five people. For me, anyway



People keep saying this, but you know what? I am pretty skeptical!

On average, we see about 100 - 120 players online during peak play times. We usually don't go wandering above this number. So, let's call it 110.

Of those 110, perhaps half will check into a chatspace, whether that's briefly or to talk with people or play. This is impressionistic.

So, that's about 55, right?

I'd guess between half and two thirds of that 55 that checked into a chatspace -- even briefly! -- will spend the bulk of their time RPing, in clan halls, or in Natters. That leaves a very manageable number of people who might be interested in hanging out in a global OOC chat... and as Sloth notes, if it becomes unmanageable, then there can be more than one global room. But it seems very important to me that people in disparate Outposts doing different things can all check into the same place in a really readily accessible way. People don't use Loc4 for chat because there's a tradition of using it for mechanics discussion and newbie questions, and because you don't think to pop in there for a chat. Navigating to a place that has a priority stake in screen real estate -- like the current chat areas in main Outposts -- is best.

And, as Tyr observes -- people have other stuff to do. Some people will be in the chatspace constantly, just socializing, but the vast majority will be in and out.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Natalie
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 01:54 PM UTC  
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I think we SHOULD have global chat space. As Zolotisy says here, at PEAK times, we have lots of folks...sometimes, I like playing at 1am EST, and things are mostly dead. Having a global chat space might help with that!

In the outposts, I'd like it to have the ability to be hidden. Just like outpost chat does. I DO NOT think it is a good idea to remove outpost chat all together, because, as many have pointed out, it is often used to help with outposts RPs frequently. I think Global chat should be in addition to any outpost chat. And as it's global, it should be available anywhere. Not just in the outposts.


I think having the global chat be a separate box might be a good option, just like our distractions. I'm not sure if this is possible, but if you can code it so it stays above other windows when opened, that would be amazing. IE: So you can click a button, and BAM, you have a box that stays in place on top of the other windows, regardless of how much you click the main Improbable Island window. This way you can keep an eye on chat, and still play on the island. Un-clicking the button would make it be able to go down in the window layers again.

If that's not possible, then having a floating box that can be placed within the window IS something I know that is possible to code.

I think global would be a nice option especially for those:
- in Cottages
- Traveling
- In the Jungle

If it seems like we have too many chat spaces available, it may be all right by others to turn this into what the Location Four is now.

.....And those are my two cents.


Quote by: Zolotisty

Quote by: Azhron

I may be wrong, but I think it would be impossible to keep up with the conversation. It's sometimes hard with just five people. For me, anyway



People keep saying this, but you know what? I am pretty skeptical!

On average, we see about 100 - 120 players online during peak play times. We usually don't go wandering above this number. So, let's call it 110.

Of those 110, perhaps half will check into a chatspace, whether that's briefly or to talk with people or play. This is impressionistic.

So, that's about 55, right?

I'd guess between half and two thirds of that 55 that checked into a chatspace -- even briefly! -- will spend the bulk of their time RPing, in clan halls, or in Natters. That leaves a very manageable number of people who might be interested in hanging out in a global OOC chat... and as Sloth notes, if it becomes unmanageable, then there can be more than one global room. But it seems very important to me that people in disparate Outposts doing different things can all check into the same place in a really readily accessible way. People don't use Loc4 for chat because there's a tradition of using it for mechanics discussion and newbie questions, and because you don't think to pop in there for a chat. Navigating to a place that has a priority stake in screen real estate -- like the current chat areas in main Outposts -- is best.

And, as Tyr observes -- people have other stuff to do. Some people will be in the chatspace constantly, just socializing, but the vast majority will be in and out.


 
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Anonymous: DB
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 03:02 PM UTC  


Perhaps the hesitancy to embrace Global Banter Chat (and the expectation that it'll be speed-flooded with overlapping conversations) has something to do with our experiences in the days just after the Outpost-specific Banter channels were enabled?

Personally, I wandered into NewHome shortly after it was first turned on, and there were so many people talking at once that it was nearly impossible to refresh the screen fast enough to stay current. By the time I could type an answer to one question, three other people had answered it too and two more people had asked the same question again. Every time I hit refresh, many more Banter exchanges would jump up the screen. And I was refreshing the screen pretty rapidly compared to what was previously necessary. I gave up after 30 minutes or and logged off exasperated. It wasn't much better for the next few days either. Now, I know things have calmed down quite a bit and the NewHome Banter (heck, all the Banter) isn't as chaotic as it was at first. But still, that first experience of turning all the NewHome folks loose at once on the obvious and immediately accessible Banter channel was kinda off-putting.

So, I guess that experience has colored my expectations somewhat. I do see and appreciate the added functionality that a Global Banter channel would bring to the game, and I think most of the other players do to. But I can't be the only one who didn't really enjoy it right after the NewHome banter started going super-fast, and maybe that has made us overly paranoid about going Global with it.

I think half my problem was losing my place in the conversations because so much was being rapidly posted between my screen refreshes and while I was trying to peck out replies. Is there any way Global Banter could be coded to appear in a separate window and update itself in realtime? If we could just see what others were posting while we were still working on a reply, we could edit and update as we went to adjust for what others had said. Or, we'd see that our reply was going to be redundant and we could just stop working on that reply and go on to type something else. Even if the banter started moving very quickly, we could at least see it happening and not unknowingly be 5 replies behind the thread when we hit Enter.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Huge thanks to CMJ for Banter in general, I think it's been a rousing success! (And super-thanks for GREM, what a godsend for us poor typists!)


 
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KimmyMonstah
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 03:13 PM UTC  
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Not opposed to it, but I do rather like my Banter vs. Story channels together.
That was if Bob does one of his stupid things that he does so very often and so very well, I get to turn around and make fun of him for it in the Banter.
[I have a habit of laughing at my characters.]

Sooo....Both? If that isn't a ton of trouble?

Although... Location Four, if I recall, was supposed to be the global chat.
Just because it's like a help center now doesn't mean we still can't chat in there, right?
Could even have a uhh...Banter in there for chatty chat chat and a help desk for Q & A.
Not to be narcissistic, but I kinda like that idea...


 
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Ashtu
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 03:33 PM UTC  
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Quote by: KimmyMonstah

...... Location Four, if I recall, was supposed to be the global chat.....

BUT Location Four is currently available ONLY in outposts - how about we add a link to it from the world, dwellings, Common Ground, etc?

(the Abandoned Factory? ......naw......)


Thank you.
 
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Reverb
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 03:37 PM UTC  
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But.. but.... it'll take all the fun out of trying to work around the absence of a global chat!

And L4 was (in my mind) definately not meanth as a chatspace, but rather as a realtime FAQ session. I suppose we could make it into a banter-common grounds as the outpost banters are now performind the L4's original function.

Yes, if you need people to banter with, you won't be able to jungle-fight/mine stone/lurk at a dwelling for a while. Suck it up. (No offence, but sometimes you just dont get to have the Cake and eat it too. Because of Death, i assume.)


"Censure acquits the Raven, but pursues the Dove." "So, that means i'm -always- innocent, right?"
 
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KimmyMonstah
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 05:05 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ashtu

Quote by: KimmyMonstah

...... Location Four, if I recall, was supposed to be the global chat.....

BUT Location Four is currently available ONLY in outposts - how about we add a link to it from the world, dwellings, Common Ground, etc?

(the Abandoned Factory? ......naw......)



Uhh. If you're in the Common Ground, you got there from an Outpost. Just as easy to get to Location Four from that same Outpost, or any other one, lol.

And....errr from dwelling's it'd be hard to code, I'm sure. What about from every single room from one? For dwellings with alot of rooms, that'd be ...nuts.

Oh and a quote from 4 itself:
'In contrast to Common Ground, The Place Behind the Fourth Wall is an area for out-of-character conversations, real-life chat, giving and receiving help with the game, and so on.'
Although I can see why it can just be thought of only as a Walking, Talking effayque.

See, my memory didn't fail this time!
EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO GIVE MYSELF A PAT ON THE BACK FOR THAT.


 
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Xith
 Friday, June 18 2010 @ 09:01 PM UTC  
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Kimmeh's right, I think. I remember reading way back at a dead thread about when L4 was introduced, and it was originally meant as a place to chat about real life stuff as well, and anything you wanted. But I guess people started directing rookies who had questions, so people answered them, and then realized THEY had questions too. So I guess it went from there.


Either way, don't take mah banters. Please. I need it specifically to reassure myself and others in the specific outpost I'm in that Xith isn't being annoying, or get reassured that he/I am doing well. Global banter chat channel isn't gonna cut it, just because everyone's gonna be like, wait, who were you talking to?


 
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KimmyMonstah
 Saturday, June 19 2010 @ 04:50 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Xith


Either way, don't take mah banters. Please. I need it specifically to reassure myself and others in the specific outpost I'm in that Xith isn't being annoying, or get reassured that he/I am doing well. Global banter chat channel isn't gonna cut it, just because everyone's gonna be like, wait, who were you talking to?



Plus, we can have really, really stupid and funny conversations in them that may or may not have to do with what's going on in the Story channel with out characters.

I actually kind of love the Banter channels. At first they were 'ohmygodthisissoconfusingrawr', but that's only because it was brand spankin' new.
NatterRegions are okay for little Banters, but they're not RIGHT THERE to be checked.
I elect to have Banters in places like the FailBoat, where Rookies will certainly have questions that they can ask.
Just in case someone is trying to do a story that involves the Boat, then they won't be interrupted.

An option to have banters in dwellings/certain rooms of dwellings might be neat, but I'd rather just keep my Outpost BanterRegions.
Plus...they're fun. Characters can be limited by who they've met, but Banters aren't like that.
[And I, for one, could have really used something like a Banter channel back when I first started rping.]


 
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Kash
 Saturday, June 19 2010 @ 06:40 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Reverb

Yes, if you need people to banter with, you won't be able to jungle-fight/mine stone/lurk at a dwelling for a while. Suck it up.



BINGO

Someone mentioned at some point (I think during the initial discussion of Banter channels) that they want the Island to keep being an RPG with a chat feature, not a chat site with a hint of role-playing. I think if we introduce a global banter, the Island is going to pretty much just become a giant chat room and some people will also role-play on the side... which means it will basically be just like every other chat site ever.

(And don't tell me none of you did any role-playing a la snuggle-buddies in your early/hormonal days of internet chatting.)

In fact, I think if a global chat is going to be introduced, it should be completely separate from the Island, for two equally important reasons:

1) A global chat within the Improbable Island game framework is going to be a massive additional load on the server as far as page calls and such go. Given that the majority of active players are also role-players, you can basically expect to take the current bandwidth load and add half again just from chat people from refreshing their GBC.

2) THE ISLAND IS NOT A CHAT ROOM
By which I mean, I'd really rather the Island maintain it's aloof and intellectual properties rather than the possible AOL vibe that a global OOC chat could bring in.


 
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