I admit that I'm posting this at about defcon 4 for "pissed-offedness", having just been 1-shotted by the Mutant for the 4th time on a rank 7 DK. However, I think it's a topic long overdue for discussion.

On those 4 deaths, I've lost a total of about 55000 experience - and I'm still only level 9.

I agree that these monsters should be tough; however, the penalties for losing need to be reduced (or the bonus for winning needs to be increased).

This last time I lost about 16000xp AND 7 charm - I'm actually considerably more upset about the charm loss. On two of the previous deaths I just lost xp; on one of them I lost about 16000xp and 4 cigarettes.

When you beat these mobs, all you ever get is xp. If there are potential charm/cigarette penalties for losing, there should also be charm/cigaretted bonuses for winning.

Why don't I just run away, you ask? Because the 1 time I did run away before the fight I lost 10 charm for doing so.

I have max tattoos/jewellery, so whatever bonuses accrue from those certainly aren't keeping me alive (or even giving me the opportunity to fight back on a rank 7 dk - 2 of the 3 times I died I had over 2500 defence, also not enough to survive for 1 round; I'm also around 1000hp).

If things are as they were when the topic came up before, the tattoos and jewelry actually make the mutant and magpie HARDER after a certain point due to a mistake in the coding.

Hmm.. thought this had been fixed, but maybe not.

Is the Diplomat related to this? I have been killed TWICE now (in a row, which means I have now had two days where I got ONE step outside of the city before dying) by this thing without even a shot. Both times were unbelievably ridiculous amounts of damage.

I've had something similar happen to me Snick, except with Canadian mosquitoes. I think that that's just the RNG being a bastard.

Back to Zamboni's original comment. I think he does have a fair point. I'm not entirely sure what the gain/loss ratios are, and I try to keep a ZAP in my bandoleer for just such occasions, so I've rarely had that many problems, but still. Preferably up the rewards, rather than down the losses. Just my tuppence worth.

Nope - I figured out the problem. Took a third death... The diplomat gets very protective of his pocket protector.

Aha. I believe it says something to that effect in the text when you hit it. I also believe that it's more a case of the pocket protector being somewhat protective of the diplomat. Very effective at it too.

I think the gain/loss ratios are very different depending on race, and on DK rank. These two monsters both always get a free first round with that "Fight" link, where... okay, you may technically be fighting back, but you don't get any choices about how to fight. No chance to use a grenade or trigger your implant. Just -- BAM, you fought!

As a Joker with not-too-bad hit points, I had a decent chance of surviving that first round. On a good day, I'd usually win it. Even on a rank 7. If not, as you say, a ZAP would finish the thing off.

Not now, not as a Robot. Losing that first automatic round seems to be 100% guaranteed. (Well, at R7, anyway.) ...And I've heard Kittymorphs on the subject. You meet either of them, you lose. Always.

For kittymorphs, the problem is that the naked-fighting buff doesn't work, which means they're fighting with no armor and no buff against a monster that attacks assuming they'll be armored up appropriately for their level. Of course they lose! I haven't figured out yet what's going on with robots.

Yah - if I survive to round 2, I'm fine - then I can grenade, or tesla frame, or even one-shot if I'm feeling unlucky - the problem is that free first round.

As I posted, 2/4 times I had over 2500 defense and 1000+ hps.

Actually, with enough DKs and Improbability Points put into Defense, and maxed out tattoos, I rarely have an issue with the Tattoo Mutant on rank <5, and with timed fighting on rank 5 got close but still beat it. Anything higher than that and you'll need a watcher blessing or a lightning suit to "survive" the fight.

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Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.

I think the creature's hp scales to your own (or was that the quest monster?). One time I had 1 hp and the creature had 1.4111 or something like that.

Yah, its hps scale - but its hps are pretty irrelevant; it's attack vs. defence that matters - and with 1000+hps (me), I should be able to survive a "reasonable" bad round.

OK - I'm confused, already posted this once and was told that it saved!

In any case:

Doing a rk7, up to level 7, have met the Tattoo Mutant/Magpie 8 times already.

At level 1, 970+hp, 180 attack, 2800 defence.

First meeting: I one-round the magpie... gain xp.
Second meeting: magpie one-rounds me... lose xp and 4 cigs.
Third meeting: mutual one-round kill... yay, player wins on a tie!... gain xp.

Next 5 meetings (over levels 3/5/7):

win in one round twice, lose in one round twice, win in two rounds once. Net small gain in xp.

Only once in 8 fights did I get to use an action (e.g. grenade) - every other fight was over before I had the chance to act.

Yes, you do get sometimes the opportunity to flee up front, but there's a huge charm penalty for doing so.

So, again, my suggestions:

balance the risk vs reward. If you have a chance to randomly lose cigs/req, you should also have the chance to randomly win stuff.

There can certainly be cigs and req for rewards, but how about:

magpie - small random chance to win a new piece of jewellery (different from what you can buy).

tattoo mutant - small random chance for a tattoo to leap off the mutant and affix itself to you (different from what you can buy).

I think that you posted it in the dwelling bugs thread by mistake.

He did.

http://enquirer.improbableisland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=16185&mode=&show=5&page=5

I guess being a completionist doesn't help passing through that devillish Rank 7 bridge. Le sigh.

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Yes, I have a dream, of electronic sheeps and linen bedsheets. But that's not the point. Or isn't it?

Fixed.

QFT.

We hates them, Precious.

I see other people saying "Yay, the Mutant, I got lots of xp!" and let me just say it is lucky that I do not have a webcam so that you all are spared the sight of the horrible conniption fit I have.

Fixed? What's fixed??

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I ATE PINEAPPLE!

I think Sessine deleted the posts in the wrong thread.

Meh. They don't seem to be a problem for NotAgain... who's most definitely a long-term kitty.

I'm not sure whether it's ATK or DEF which determines first hit as I've been cranking up both equally, but I'm guessing that at R7 Not has >4:1 chance of one-hit KOing the mutant.

On Bastard Rank it's a whole other world of pain. but that why they're bastards, right?

I can't say that I've ever thought the rewards not worth the risk. [scritches head] Has there been some recent changes in the payout or something?