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 If I could change one small thing on The Island
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Ada
 Thursday, August 30 2012 @ 08:20 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew


Also, concerning Raven Inn: I would love to see it be removed from random encounters and simply added as a link that you can access via any Jungle. Similar to the common ground, I suppose. You never want it when it pops up, and on the rare occasions you do want it, you can never find it!




I kind of think that is the charm of the Raven Inn, to be honest. I like that it's improbable. Make it accessible and - well, then it's like any other pub!


 
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Matthew
 Thursday, August 30 2012 @ 08:29 PM UTC  
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I kind of think that is the charm of the Raven Inn, to be honest. I like that it's improbable. Make it accessible and - well, then it's like any other pub!



True. I'm mostly annoyed by the "You decide that this place holds no interest for you today CONTINUE Y/N"

Speaking of, chat spaces in restaurants would be awesome. I see people playing in NewHome like they're in Joe's Diner quite a few times. It's a little confusing to get in on a scene like that, though, because you don't know what's going on.

Not that I know or anything.


 
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Trowa
 Thursday, August 30 2012 @ 08:52 PM UTC  
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Quote by: MatthewSpeaking of, chat spaces in restaurants would be awesome. I see people playing in NewHome like they're in Joe's Diner quite a few times. It's a little confusing to get in on a scene like that, though, because you don't know what's going on[/p]

That's one of those things you're supposed to use the DNI status for...

Not that I know or anything.


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Ada
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 04:39 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

Speaking of, chat spaces in restaurants would be awesome. I see people playing in NewHome like they're in Joe's Diner quite a few times. It's a little confusing to get in on a scene like that, though, because you don't know what's going on


That's one of those things you're supposed to use the DNI status for...

Not that I know or anything.



I know that that was the idea when DNI status was put in, but I really can't help but feel like a giant jerkass if I put DNI up. "Oh here I am in the outpost, a public space NO YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME GO AWAY".


 
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Awesome Fred
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 05:43 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada
On the random events: I'm with Sessine here - why remove our choice?


This feels like a pretty cheap example, but bear with me even if it seems patronizing.

Let's say you had a Something Improbable event, and the two choices were as follows:

* Penalize Me
* Don't Penalize Me

Each and every time, I think we can say with 99.9% confidence that people will choose the "Don't Penalize Me" option. Now, let's modify that.

* Don't Give Me Free Stuff
* Give Me Free Stuff

Again, with 99.9% confidence, I reckon people will choose to get Free Stuff. This is fundamentally the same as the first hypothetical event.

* 99% chance to gain 1 million req, 1% chance to take 1 damage
* 100% chance that nothing happens.

This one actually has a risk involved. However, you have an obvious choice where the gains far outweigh the risks whereas the other... is just dumb to pick.

* 50% chance to gain 2 cigs, 50% chance to lose 1 cig
* 100% chance that nothing happens.

Now we've gone somewhere in the realm of reality. In this case, unless you had just gotten your 80th cig and are excitedly rushing over to the Luggage Hut to get your biggest backpack, you will always end up taking the chance on 2 cigs. Even though there is a risk of losing a cig, it's statistically advantageous for people to swat this pinata for the 2 cigs.

What is the point of all these extreme examples? They're just to hammer in the point that There Exists Choice Which Is Not Meaningful. But Fred, you say, CMJ's events are not this simplistic. They're not obvious choices. Players don't know the statistical discrepancies between two choices. They just whimsically pick ones, usually.

Well, I maybe I truly am in the minority, but when I am using my stamina, I make sure it goes where I want it to go. I don't want it to be wasted. I don't want to be failboated unless I'm intentionally trying to avoid truancy or something specific. So if an event offers me a choice between something that offers a risk of instant unpreventable death and something that lets me avoid it, I am not making that choice at all.

So restructuring these Improbable Events so that they present preventable death chances but no "leave this alone" choices would make a much more interesting game, I'd say, and it wouldn't take away player choice, because there was no meaningful player choice there to begin with.



Unless, again, I'm truly off-key by being a player who cares about avoiding death.


 
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Clueless
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 07:23 AM UTC  
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So restructuring these Improbable Events so that they present preventable death chances but no "leave this alone" choices would make a much more interesting game, I'd say, and it wouldn't take away player choice, because there was no meaningful player choice there to begin with.



Unless, again, I'm truly off-key by being a player who cares about avoiding death.



I agree 100% with Fred. Unless I am willing to visit the failboat (not maybe visit, but certain that I am a click away), I always avoid Stonehenge / The Stream / The Path / The Dock / The Old Man. The chance of loosing however much XP, req I have on me, stamina in cage fights, favor, RP time until newday, buffs, ammunition, et cetra just isn't worth the typically paltry rewards. One cig? Two cigs? So what? I'd of earned then, plus req, exp, and skill xp by jungling instead of getting my ass sent to the boat. The chance of four cigs or stam is nice, I admit, but Stonehenge boats me more often than anything else, and the others are not far behind. I also usually avoid the Cryptic Joker because of some of the correct answers you can give that are wrong because you're off by a letter or a word or something, even if you have the same thing in mind.


 
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Ada
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 03:13 PM UTC  
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Fred, it actually sounds like you are improbability averse, so I can't for the life of me understand why you want to be forced into picking the option that might kill you. I know Stonehenge can kill me. I do it anyway, because it's got good stuff in it too - exp, cigs, so on. You do not have a lack of choice - you're using your choice to avoid the event. I am using my choice to do the event. I honestly can't understand why I'm the one arguing for choice and you're the one arguing for no choice! If you don't want to be killed randomly, avoid the random events - that's what that button is for. If we took out the "kill randomly" bit, why would anyone ever say no to Stonehenge? (Unless they're a 10-base-hp-forever sort of person, I guess.) If we force everyone to take the "kill randomly" choice every time, all that does is make people resent it more. Now, when Stonehenge kills someone, they can say "oh, how stupid, why do I keep doing that". If they're forced, then we get "fuck this game randomly killing me for no reason. I don't want to play anymore".


 
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Awesome Fred
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 04:09 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada Fred, it actually sounds like you are improbability averse, so I can't for the life of me understand why you want to be forced into picking the option that might kill you.


Let me withdraw my earliest statement and instead offer this more specific, clarified one: I want better choices in my Improbable Events. I want them to be more tense, I want them to be situational, I want them to cause tension and double-thinking, I want them to be less predictable, and I want less stability. I want each choice to feel meaningful, and when one choice offers the risk of death for a paltry reward, whereas the other is to not take a chance at all, then it doesn't feel like a meaningful choice.

I made the suggestion to remove the ability to skip events because it forces me out of my comfort zone and no longer can I even look at the game in the same light. Traveling across the map is just about necessary to play the game, yet each step I take would have a random chance to spring that danger upon me. Same with hunting. Theoretically, I'd deal with that by banking more frequently, OSTing more frequently, and doing all sorts of things to minimize the risk of getting that page. However, I do think instant death is overall an unfun mechanic for most people, and so I would definitely support Stonehenge and the others replacing their Instant Failboat result with the Pinata's Twisted Ankle--and that wouldn't be so drastic in modifying the player experience.

I know Stonehenge can kill me. I do it anyway, because it's got good stuff in it too - exp, cigs, so on.


I don't know how you do it, but it's my experience that people would prefer to not take that risk. You're one of the brave that are willing to step out of your comfort zone without a push.

Now, when Stonehenge kills someone, they can say "oh, how stupid, why do I keep doing that". If they're forced, then we get "fuck this game randomly killing me for no reason. I don't want to play anymore".


When I receive the Stonehenge event, I say, "This is a stupid choice, why would I ever take the substantially possible risk of losing my entire gameday and some experience for the chance of receiving a measly 4 cigs?" I understand that all of us value different things differently in this game, so if it seems like I've lost sight of that, forgive me. But I think there's a reasonable baseline that the majority can come to agree to about which in-game events are an interesting choice and which ones are not. It's up to us players to say our opinions about them to arrive at that general consensus.


 
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Collin-Vee
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 04:32 PM UTC  
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... I think what Fred is saying here, is that he wants the choices to be tense, and not opt-in/opt-out. You can either take the low-risk path with less reward or punishment, or the high-risk one and get your shiny thing. He wants it to make people stop and consider for a moment, instead of: "Stonehenge? Fuck that. I can get my ciggies elsewhere."


 
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Harris
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 05:20 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Collin-Vee

... I think what Fred is saying here, is that he wants the choices to be tense, and not opt-in/opt-out. You can either take the low-risk path with less reward or punishment, or the high-risk one and get your shiny thing. He wants it to make people stop and consider for a moment, instead of: "Stonehenge? Fuck that. I can get my ciggies elsewhere."



I hope that this is a simple thing to change, because I would love for the Something Improbable events to be more tense, exactly as Colin and Fred have said here.

(Side note: Clueless- did you know that the stream, Stonehenge, and the Hearty Broth Joker can all three also grant you a BIG experience point bonus?)


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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Clueless
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 06:02 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Harris



(Side note: Clueless- did you know that the stream, Stonehenge, and the Hearty Broth Joker can all three also grant you a BIG experience point bonus?)



Yes, I di- the stream does too? I don't quite remember that one.. Ah well, It's still boated me far more often than anything else.

I avoid the first two like the plague. Titans are more than enough of a favor drain for me as is.


 
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Ada
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 08:04 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Collin-Vee

... I think what Fred is saying here, is that he wants the choices to be tense, and not opt-in/opt-out. You can either take the low-risk path with less reward or punishment, or the high-risk one and get your shiny thing. He wants it to make people stop and consider for a moment, instead of: "Stonehenge? Fuck that. I can get my ciggies elsewhere."



I don't see how that would make things any better (from his perspective) than now - you'd get just as used to hitting the "low risk" button as you are used to hitting the "fuck no" button now.



Edit, @ Harris: I don't think more tense is a good idea. Onslaught makes things tense and people complain about it constantly. It has really stressed out a lot of roleplayers. (I remember a lot of conversations when it came out about how people felt so bad when they logged on, because Onslaught was tense and (they felt, I don't) obligatory - and the people who I had those conversations with, almost every one of them, no longer play this game.) If I want tense, I'm not going to play on the Island. If I want tense, I'm going to get some action game with graphics and sound, where people can drop from the ceiling and shoot me in the back of the head.


 
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Iriana
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 12:53 AM UTC  
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Everyone has different ideas about which Improbable Events they're willing to chance and which not. For example, I always go into Stonehenge, and always take the broth. I only sometimes walk the ledge, and I never talk to the Cryptic Questions Joker, and I run like hell from the stream. I don't have any statistical data about the results of any of these--just a feeling that makes me suspicious of that damn Joker stream, and a feeling that it seems to kill me far more often than Stonehenge does.

This is silly, because when I really think about it, Stonehenge has landed me on the FailBoat many, many times. But Stonehenge also has the slim possibility of an insane EXP gain. To me, that's worth getting FailBoated. I like the thrill of that little risk.

Someone else may always risk the stream and never Stonehenge--it just depends on what they value, and what the potential rewards are. So to agree with what someone said earlier in this thread, wouldn't it just be better to adjust the rewards so that they're a bigger incentive to risk death or crippling? Then again, four cigs are nice for me, but if you have a million and four cigs, four more might not matter. So then we have the problem of trying to make something valuable to everyone.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Thursday, September 06 2012 @ 11:33 PM UTC  
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One thing I want changed on the Island Enquirer: A more modern forum system with all the appropriate bells and whistles. I'd like to send an in-forum PM to people when I need to deal with an argument cluttering up an off-topic thread, I'd like to be able to properly search my older forum posts in order to organize previous ideas into a more accurate manner when the subjects come up again, I'd like to be able to use [size=18][u][i][b]multiple tags on text without them breaking each other[/b][/i][/u][/size]. I'd like to see most popular posts, STICKY topics, etc. And if the community agrees with it, I'd like the ingame account to be all that's necessary to register and post for the forum.


 
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Ada
 Friday, September 07 2012 @ 12:04 AM UTC  
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I think having your in-game account transfer to your Enquirer account would be difficult to do. (Disclaimer: not an expert!) At any rate, I think it would make way too many unnecessary forum accounts - think of all the people with many, many alts, or the people who sign up for the game and never make it past Corporal Punishment, or the people who just don't care about the Enquirer.

With you on the better forum though! If I need to pm people I use the distracts function, but if you don't know who matches to which forum account that could definitely get confusing.


 
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Matthew
 Friday, September 07 2012 @ 12:07 AM UTC  
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I agree with that. The visual update a little bit back was awfully nice but the backend itself is pretty bare-bones.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Friday, September 07 2012 @ 12:36 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada

At any rate, I think it would make way too many unnecessary forum accounts - think of all the people with many, many alts, or the people who sign up for the game and never make it past Corporal Punishment, or the people who just don't care about the Enquirer.



Not an expert either, but I'm fairly sure you're not making any unnecessary forum accounts--you're eliminating all forum accounts. It would be the very same Island account.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, September 07 2012 @ 05:38 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada

At any rate, I think it would make way too many unnecessary forum accounts - think of all the people with many, many alts, or the people who sign up for the game and never make it past Corporal Punishment, or the people who just don't care about the Enquirer.



Not an expert either, but I'm fairly sure you're not making any unnecessary forum accounts--you're eliminating all forum accounts. It would be the very same Island account.

Well, no. Any forum software is going to have its own user accounts table. Being able to use your Island login to post in the forums automatically without having to log in separately is certainly possible (Mine Things does it), but it would require every Island login to have, behind the scenes, a matching account created in the forums -- alts and tire-kickers included. (And, oh... do we want our forum accounts to time out on us after fifteen minutes 'inactivity' that was really spent composing a masterwork post?)

It would be rather nice to have better forum software. Geeklog's search function is abysmally awful, I agree, and you have also identified several of its other flaws. It would have to be a HULK SMASH switchover -- starting fresh with empty forums, because converting our rather large legacy of forum threads from Geeklog to, for instance, phpBB would be a non-trivial project which... well, I am going to guess wildly and say, not gonna happen.

And then there's the Wiki, and the Gallery. I don't even know how well they could hook into new forum software. Would a 'drop everything and start over' approach be acceptable for either of them? I don't think so.

Anyway, my main point is, new forum software would not be a 'small thing.' Geeklog does do the job, more or less. Much though I might be casting wistful eyes on some of the other slick packages out there, I'd say the price of changing over would be too high. For now, we're pretty much stuck with committed to Geeklog.


 
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Matthew
 Friday, September 07 2012 @ 11:29 AM UTC  
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So I love the new gifting station. It's great and clever and well-coded and it pretty much addresses every complaint everyone ever had with it.

Except one.

Oh, I know what you're saying. You're rolling back in your chair right now, mouth open in shock. Matthew, superstar of generosity, good-will and contentment has a complaint? Say it ain't so! Alas, my friends, as much as it pains me, it is true.

It would be awesome if alts/people on the same network could send hunter's lodge and memento items to eachother, and just bar eBoy's items instead. That seems to be what you're really trying to prevent. What's the use of barring Hunter's Lodge items?

Player A has Alt Account B.
Player A spends a dollar on Alt Account B.
Buys something.
CMJ has one dollar.
-or-
Player A has Alt Account B.
Player A spends a dollar on his or her main account, buys a thing.
Sends it to B.
CMJ has one dollar. (edit: one dollar AND ONE CENT. Fuck yeah!)

So yeah, why's it matter?

As for mementos, if you're sending yourself mementos to get the attributes, then that's way too sad and you've already lost every game, forever. Frown

Mostly, my complaint is that players who happen to live in the same house (thus on the same network) can't send anything at all to eachother anymore, and that's honestly a pretty big bummer.


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Friday, September 07 2012 @ 11:37 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

Player A has Alt Account B.
Player A spends a dollar on Alt Account B.
Buys something.
CMJ has one dollar.
-or-
Player A has Alt Account B.
Player A spends a dollar on his or her main account, buys a thing.
Sends it to B.
CMJ has one dollar. (edit: one dollar AND ONE CENT. Fuck yeah!)

So yeah, why's it matter?

As someone with *cough* a few different accounts (ALL FOR STORY REASONS!) I've long wondered about this. I appreciate the five dollar throw down to make an alt a 'REAL ALT' with an extended bio. I get that. The rest, I have to say, while having not really bothered me since I'm the only one here, (no other players in this household sadly) has confused me since day one. If CMJ gets the cashola, why prevent the switcharounds with Lodge Items?

(Eboy items I totally understand, etc etc cheating. But lodge items are almost all fluff for RP purposes. I'm not sure I see the cheating potential there?)

Not complaining, I don't really mind having to thrown down some extra bucks if my alt wants something that my main happens to have but can't send. It probably is lame for people in the same household though.

-moo


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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