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CavemanJoe
 Monday, December 06 2010 @ 08:33 PM UTC (Read 8049 times)  
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Quote from the other thread:

Well, we really need a quest system, don't we? Right now, with the exception of Dan's quests (which are boring), all the plot events in the game are hard-coded. Something that could take text, requirements, events and rewards from the database (potentially player-created!) and then structure up a quest would be a nifty thing.

I'mma split this off into a new thread.


Well, here's the new thread.

The first thing we should do with a questing system is to figure out what we would use it for, and then I'll know what to code for. So, players, write some sample quests.


 
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Maniak
 Monday, December 06 2010 @ 09:00 PM UTC  
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Race specific quests. The best and easiest I could come up with were 2 quests a la Mr. Stern. One for Robots, one for Midgets.

You can unlock the quest if you're a specific race.
If you're a midget, you open a quest to visit every pub in every outpost, sample every drink. Reward? Unlocks a new drink in their pub. Do the quest again, to unlock more drinks with different effects for different races. Or different drinks for different races.
For robots, again visiting the pubs and playing the games. Reward? uhmm, yeah. Obviously I haven't thought much of this out.

And tehdave's quest from the other thread is damn awesome. And can be repeated infinitely, unlike mine.


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tehdave
 Monday, December 06 2010 @ 09:10 PM UTC  
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Other than the Epic Quest I laid out in the other thread, I think quests could work very well to build the setting up...sort of explain why things are the way they are, direct new players (or older players who haven't seen them) to various Points Of Interest, etc... Maybe have something where you run into the Old Woman in NewHome, but instead of just singing the song, she also gives you a coupon for one free Sixes roll, but to use it you have to talk to the Old Man in the Raven Inn (which, maybe when you're given the Free Sixes Roll card is immediately bumped up to be your next random encounter, but only once) who tells you a bit about the Inn itself, how it came to be on II (or connected to it, as my assumption is) etc. then lets you roll your Free Sixes. Also, when you wander into the Council Offices to collect your swag, you might get another option "A special Request" in which you're given a piece of paper that tells you to go find the proprietor of the museum, who's looking out for new recruits to get some things done, which would lead into teaching newbies that there's a questing system in the first place...
Or they kill something out in the jungle, and the next time they go hunting they see someone cleaning the carcass of Three French Hens, and the NPC doing that tells them that they learned it in Kittania... Or they hear off to one side a contestant using Rosen-Kai, and wonder where they could learn to sling words as weapons...

So some leading-newbies-around quests, for starters, to show them what's here in the game so they can get a sense of discovery on their own, instead of just being told "Oh go here so you can do this" by veterans, they can actually find it easier on their own (well, being led by the game, but I think there's more a sense of "Oh that's nifty" when a game opens itself up to you as opposed to others telling you how to access these things) - could be more engaging, for one...

So...maybe those wouldn't be quests exactly... (Excuse me, I've played far too much World of Warcraft...if an NPC tells me to go do something, I call it a quest...) maybe they'd just be more SOMETHING IMPROBABLE!s...but adding those in couldn't hurt, could it?

As far as quests go, I think my best idea for it is having something like what I described in the other thread, and maybe having that be modular so you can, say, write the beginning and end text of a quest, along with names for the items, and the quest fills itself in along the way. (Maybe, if you get the same quest again, have slightly different text saying "Oh, it happened again! We really need to get better locks..." or something?) Another advantage of a modular quest system like that is you could make simple quests "I was walking from Kittania when I dropped my glasses...mind heading over to look for them?" as well as the more complex ones "There's a Chupacabra of Doom that's been terrorizing outposts and leading monster invasions...seek out information about it so you can take it down." and really, anything in-between. Also, each leg of the quest could have its own reward, whether it be a cig or two, or some req, or a card, or a random eBoy's item, or a Calle Shell, or a coupon for Suzie's (Good for one free rental of a building kit) or Sheila's (5% off any one purchase, this DK only) all based on the "difficulty" of that particular module, rather than a flat benefit regardless of what's being asked.

edit:

Quote by: Maniak

{snip}Race specific quests.{/snip}
And tehdave's quest from the other thread is damn awesome. And can be repeated infinitely, unlike mine.



I actually like this idea...first time you're a specific race you can get a quest based on that race, or maybe even repeatable every time you pick that race? first time you do it it unlocks something, every additional time you just get some req for it, or something like that?

And uh... Oops! thanks...it's an idea that's been sort-of-brewing in the back of my head for a while now.


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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tehdave
 Monday, December 06 2010 @ 09:38 PM UTC  
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OOOOOH I just came up with another idea... choices in quests!

Let's say, for instance, part of a quest involves getting a hat for a particular client. You go to Deimos' shop in IC, and you get an option to ask Deimos about buying a standard hat, instead of a custom one for yourself, and he says he can make one for 1000 req, but he'd be willing to waive the fee if you go do something for him - he's running low on blue dye, and there's a blueberry patch up by the mountains that he can make dye from, but he'd need you to go grab it for him. You, as the player, can choose to go get the blueberries, or just shell out the 1000 req and move on.

Alternatively, when you find the Epic Quest Monster, you could have the option of trying to reason with it instead of fighting it. If you do, it might ask you to perform some task (talk to the council office about something it was trying to get done, or grab it a steak (hey, maybe it was just hungry!) which would lead to its own path of the quest) and it'll give you the item if you do the task(s) it asks of you - at which point you're returned to the questgiver and get your reward as if you defeated it. This could even be an option in and of itself - the monster won't fight you, and will only run away, until you placate it by restoring its honor, or finding its crush and giving a token of its love...or something... the possibilities here are only limited by the imagination!


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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dizzyizzy
 Monday, December 06 2010 @ 11:01 PM UTC  
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There's one thing in place already that could be developed... A while ago, I asked the watcher about her sweater and she said we were friends, and nothing else had happened. Maybe something else'll happen on down the road? I don't know. But the watcher could start asking you for "One little favor"... Yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this. But maybe there's something useful in there.


 
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Mr Geppetto
 Monday, December 06 2010 @ 11:39 PM UTC  
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Maybe other NPC characters can be involved as well, not only bartenders. And also smaller, simpler quests. For instance, you go visit Maiko's academy and find her in quite a state because she's missing some ingredient for a feast she's supposed to prepare, let's say 50 (or 100) pieces of Panthzer meat, and could you go fetch her some. Kill, clean, bring back the meat and once you've filled the quota, you get either a small reward (Rq, Cigs) or you can choose a skill increase in one of the skills she teaches, for free (free of charge, free of stam*). Doable, on the same principle, also for other NPCs, like Cuthbert (defeat fifty monsters using only coarse/confusing/classy insults to help spread the fame of his school).
Also, a quest involving Raven Inn would be nice. It's kind of ... I don't know, "Oh, no, not that, again..." each time I run across it. But if there were things going on, like getting a possible quest once in a full moon there, might be an incentive to actually enter the place.
Another idea snippet: maybe there can be quests to find items in a certain dwelling? A bit like how cards are now. Only you won't be told what dwelling it is in, or where exactly the dwelling is, but rather given a description, hints, general area it might be in, and such stuff, so to encourage exploring of the wonderful dwellings the island has.





* that can be explained away, for instance she gives you a set of tapes that you get to listen while you sleep and bingo, you wake up with 0.5% more cleaning the carcass experience.


 
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Matthew
 Tuesday, December 07 2010 @ 12:37 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

or you can choose a skill increase in one of the skills she teaches, for free (free of charge, free of stam*).



Yes. Perhaps rewards other than req should be an option, because, personally (and I know of at least a few other people who agree with me), that if you couldn't carry a quest reward through a DK, I just wouldn't bother anymore, at least not with the way the current questing system is. I would definitely do them if the reward could be, say, 4000 experience or so (and towards the higher levels, that really isn't that much) in your cooking, cleaning, insults, any given travel skill, hunting skills, etc...

Maybe the reward could be a coupon that you can trade in at Cuthbert's, Maiko's, Tynan's, or some other place, and then they show you the 'advanced lessons' or whatever.

That said, though, I really like Dave's idea, but it does sound like quite a monster to code. A better connection to the Island would be great; right now it feels like "go kill this thing. It's not actually doing anything threatening or anything like that, it's just siting there, but go kill it anyway, because I don't like its face".


 
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Wongo the Sane
 Tuesday, December 07 2010 @ 02:13 AM UTC  
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Well, we really need a [new] quest system, don't we?

Dan's quests... are boring

Something that could take text, requirements, events and rewards from the database (potentially player-created!) and then structure up a quest would be a nifty thing.




I appreciate I may be the only one here who actually enjoys Dan's quests - though it would surprise me if there aren't a few more hiding away somewhere.
I am also going to be the dog in the manger and point out that any system for generating random quests will eventually become repetitive. No matter how beautifully written. No matter how long you make the list of potential tasks. It is a flaw inherent in the system that, eventually, you will run out of new things.

Fan of them as I am, however, I fully agree that the 'fluff' for them needs a re-write to link them with the island setting a little, rather than just being a throw-back to the LOGD engine.*
And tying them into Onslaught would be fantastic, though not necessarily a good idea... (see below)

QUESTION:
Why do these new quest ideas need to replace Dan's quests?
Could each settlement perhaps have its own quest tree(s), with perhaps non-monetary rewards like the tool kit hire or training vouchers depending on location? This would also give the option of switching between quest types if you get bored of one - variety is the spice of life Big Grin
Perhaps Kittania quests could award training in cookery and travelling. Pleasentville could award Insult training and/or vouchers for free steaks. Cyber City could train in building actions. Ace High could give cards, New Home could give items from e-boys, Squat hole could give combat/hunting training, and New Pittsburgh could give... damn, they get the raw deal again. Cigarettes perhaps?


*I actually have ideas for this flying around in my head right now. If I got them down on e-paper and sent them in, what would be the odds of them getting reviewed monster-submission style, and implemented if they were up to par?


 
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Mr Geppetto
 Tuesday, December 07 2010 @ 09:00 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Wongo+the+Sane

I appreciate I may be the only one here who actually enjoys Dan's quests - though it would surprise me if there aren't a few more hiding away somewhere.

-------

Why do these new quest ideas need to replace Dan's quests?

Could each settlement perhaps have its own quest tree(s), with perhaps non-monetary rewards like the tool kit hire or training vouchers depending on location? This would also give the option of switching between quest types if you get bored of one - variety is the spice of life Big Grin



I actually like them too. At least I enjoy bitching about them, and that is already something. I might feel a bit differently if they weren't to carry over (that would be quite the blow, actually*), but I'd still like to have them around. I like the 'sperpent' and the 'chimrera', I don't mind the cash&experience, even within the same DK**), and they're good RP material, too. I remember at least a funny scene, a while ago, with a monster's head and a 'deal', and recycling, done by the illustrious and dastardly genteel RP Whistle.

And yes, indeed. When jotting ideas for new quests I never thought they were bound to replace the existent ones. Merely to offer alternatives (that's why I was suggesting also alternative, non-cash 'payments'), to "spice things up". Maybe they can even be made to interfere, Dan's quest, connected to Maiko's, but you can't even start Tynan's before you finish those, because... I have no idea. For now.

Also, too bad that Dave's post about the epic quests remained in the other thread. That was lovely. For me, it was a reminder of old style adventure games, my beloved early LucasArts adventures. Get rubber chicken with pulley from swamp, so you can combine it with a rope tied to a pole, so you can visit the cabin, so you can then visit the swordmaster, so you can learn insult fighting, so you can.... and so on. So I take the opportunity to say: Dave, that's brilliant. I don't know what a nightmare that would be to code&write (I do have a vague idea it can't be easy), but I'd love, love, love to see something like that in this game.

------
* & ** Please, please, don't take that away just yet. Please?


 
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tehdave
 Tuesday, December 07 2010 @ 05:11 PM UTC  
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Alright, so in response to Mr Geppetto and Wongo, maybe leave Dan's quests in, but give a second quest option to do Jobs...

Also had another idea, with other NPCs - maybe, you talk to Maiko one day, and she tells you someone made off with her favorite wok. You go through an epic quest of some sort, and at the end of it, she gives you the wok she was using to replace her favorite. And this one holds 30 bites of meat!

Or you do a quest for Cuthbert - something to find the lost scroll of Rosen-Kai in the mountains (or something)...when you eventually find it and bring it back, he rewards you with the ability to make your own insults!

Basically, have one-time quests with the reward being something tangible in-game (without being totally broken...no "permanent 50% discount at shiela's" or something...)

Maybe there's a quest for Misery Guts in NewHome...finish that quest and you can use his comms tent once per gameday to check eBoy's prices for free, and pay for the privilege thereafter.

There are more ideas knocking around, which will be added here when necessary. Also, link for posterity:
My post outlining the Epic Quest Idea


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Wongo the Sane
 Tuesday, December 07 2010 @ 11:22 PM UTC  
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Quote by: tehdave

Maybe there's a quest for Misery Guts in NewHome...finish that quest and you can use his comms tent once per gameday to check eBoy's prices for free, and pay for the privilege thereafter.




I would dearly love to be able to check the prices at e-boys from the comms tent.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, December 08 2010 @ 07:45 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Wongo+the+Sane

Quote by: tehdave

Maybe there's a quest for Misery Guts in NewHome...finish that quest and you can use his comms tent once per gameday to check eBoy's prices for free, and pay for the privilege thereafter.




I would dearly love to be able to check the prices at e-boys from the comms tent.



You know you can do that right now, it just costs 1 cig every time, aye?


 
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Swede
 Wednesday, December 08 2010 @ 08:18 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

You know you can do that right now, it just costs 1 cig every time, aye?


Is that function back again? Last I checked it was gone after the e-boys prices were reset.


 
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Cenobite
 Wednesday, December 08 2010 @ 11:06 AM UTC  
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What about a quest for the train stations where you have to go to each station and repair something? The reward could be a free train pass. You could make it replayable once per a DK.


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wvf
 Thursday, December 09 2010 @ 08:40 PM UTC  
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Well, I just gotta say something. Smile

Proposal:
I think it would be really quite great if there was more player/player interaction going on with this whole quest system. For example, say Player Alpha gets a quest. "Go find the x of y in z, or whatever. Then, (occasionally) give it to Player Beta. Then, come back here and I'll reward you." Player Beta, should he get the item and choose to go on it's quest, now reports back the original person who gave player Alpha the quest, and continues. Beta is not told about this in any way, before he is contacted by Alpha.

Details:
Quests time out after a week or two, basically, long enough so time isn't a bad pressure.
If a quest requires Alpha to get something from Beta, then after the quest times out, both Alpha and Beta can request new counterparts.
To 'give' an item, a new link in the sidebar appears when the two people are together in a room.

Permutations:
Allow Alpha to choose who Beta is. Buddies! Or not.
Have a quest where a person will suddenly be relied on _a lot_, like 'Holy shit, 30 people just distracted me.'
OK, so, this monster must be stopped because it is monitoring our distractions! You need to talk to these guys, but you can't distract them. Have fun.
Others may contact you with permutations and advice with regards to the quest, eg, 'oh and the meat is worth 10x to Kebabs and Shit'.
Bounty quests: If you talk another player into the above, you get a 20% cut from the total transactions. You can't do it yourself, because you don't have the draw of the bejewelled x of y to attract the meat in the first place.


Example:
You are wandering along, playing Improbable Island, when you get a distraction. It is from DDR! Wondering what he has to say, you open it. Ah, he is requesting help with the Gremlin Army at AceHigh! And, hm, here is a link to accept or refuse. What's in it for you? Distract DDR back, he probably forgot to tell you. The next day, you find a distraction. Ah, 4 ciggies are in it for you, from Dan, and Theta just emailed him that Maiko has placed a bounty on gremlin meat. *accepted* You go off to battle, and, later, collect 4 ciggies from Dan. The 1500 req you made by selling high-priced meat to Maiko was a nice bonus, too.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, December 11 2010 @ 03:33 AM UTC  
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I'm interested in the modular idea here Dave. This is how I'm seeing it.

Basic blocks.
One level quests taken from some fixed list of types.

Reinforce walls.
Fight monsters in jungle until certain one encountered/killed.
Fight monsters in jungle until object found.
Go to certain square, get something there, return with said item.
Anything else that can be dreamt up.

Over quests

Then you have over-quests. Some NPC wants something from you in return for a reward of some form. To achieve this you need to visit a chain of people on the Island, having to do a basic quest for each in order to move on to the next (or maybe have some of them in parallel, why not?) Once you've completed this chain, you return to original NPC, claim reward.

Example of basic quest.

Name of employer: FV-276-45
Outpost: CC404
Found in: council building.

Text of you asking for [INSERT ITEM HERE], then FV-276-45 explaining how he's lost his left arm out in the jungle, could you find it for him please? He'd be most grateful.

This is "Fight monsters in jungle until item found"

Text describing the finding of the object

Text of FV-276-45 saying how you've increased his functionality. Here have [INSERT ITEM HERE].


If so, then a basic building block of this type will consist of
Three lots of text
Name of person.
Outpost.
Place in Outpost.

In general it will be [block type], [The above three bits of data] [Varying amounts of text]

Is it possible that quests like this could be submitted a la monster descriptions?

Example of an over quest

Original Employer: Mr Stern
Outpost: NewHome
Location: Museum

Requirements: Already completed museum quest. Midget.

Text explaining that Mr Stern is fascinated by the Skronky Pot Protectors Society (SPPS). Could you infiltrate them and report back? He knows that the HQ is behind the Skronky Pot, but doesn't know the password. However he knows someone who does. [INSERT BASIC QUEST HERE: ITEM = Password]

At this point, a button appears in the SP, allowing player to try to enter the SPPS HQ.
Short text: there is a midget guard here who blatantly requires a bribe to pass.
Player may give some req (they have to guess how much) midget takes it all and either lets them in or not, depending on how much it is. Then Password required. If they bribe and have password, then they get to enter the HQ.
More text To be inducted, player must 'prove themselves worthy'. Beat particular beastie in some jungle outpost.

Text saying well done. Induction ceremony of some form involving lots of cider and fighting. Get knocked out, wake up next day with bad head and no req.
You have new medal (SPPS badge) and a few perks as a midget in SH. (Slight discount at K&S? Booz?) Maybe also access to SPPS HQ room.

Text saying well done from Mr Stern. Here. Have reward.

This is a fairly simple example to illustrate. Even supposing that they could be recycled, that's a lot of work for each one isn't it? How many would you need? As a minimum? Who's going to do that? I can't see a standard pattern here. In one sense, the more flexible the better, the longer before they just get repetitive and boring. On the other hand, well, its a lot of time and effort for each one. Effort that I'm not sure could be spread out.




 
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dark
 Monday, January 17 2011 @ 04:14 PM UTC  
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Sinse I love quests I really like this idea, but there may be some ways to simplify coding.

Have each outpost have a residential area. Here, players can submit npcs to have quests ala monster descriptions.

Instead however of having one npc per quest with some over quests, simply allow the creator to choose a number of sub goals which might be put together to fill a quest. the difficulty of the quest would depend upon how many sub goals the creator added.

Sub goals could simply be filling requirements of several types, one or more of which may be chosen.

these could be for instance:

1: go to square x on a map, suteable for delivery quests, "go and see my brother, or "go and setup a net to catch a flying sperm whale. The hole point though is to fill the goal all you'd need to do is go to a location on the map.

2: go to outpost. Essentialy like the above, but you go to an outpost instead, perhaps even to a unique location in an outpost. For instance, you meet a human in newhome who says: "my brother was a contestant here, but he was beheaded by a flying raser bladed phrisby in a fit of improbability. I just got a letter thugh that the contents of his brain was downloaded onto a rusty hard drive which is now in the Cyber city 411 scrapyou, please go and fetch it forme"

lastly, killmonster x or find item x after a fight.

the problem though with these as steps is that you don't know when your going to encounter a specific monster, so these could be just s irritating as dan's quests. I therefore suggest for these steps you considder adding a "search" link in the jungle (perhaps with an associated skill).

This would have a chance of finding either the quest monster or item specifically, but obviously only a chance, ---- particularly if you needed to try searching many times.

This could also be used to create loger quests, if you were required to search for a larger number of items or kill a larger number of quest monsters.

Putting these together, you could have some very long and interesting quests. For instance, you find thehuman's brother's cpu byentering the scrapyard. Upon examining it though, the human learns there's a stash of rec and cigarettes hidden at a certain location and offers to travel there with you.

Getting there though, you find a safe with combination locks, so need to go to Squat hole to see a thief about picking it. Upon entering squat hole, the thief tells you that a gang of rabid midgets stole his lock picks, which you need to go and collect from the local jungle.

Quite a bit of lock pick collecting laterwhen you return to the thief, he proceeds to double cross you and peg it off with the safe, requiring you to search for him in the local jungle.

Some searches later, you find the thief (a single quest mob creature you need to search for), and kick his rear, where upon you split the contents of the safe with your human friend.

A hopefully reasonable story (to say I made it up on the spot), with some varied activities, but all based entirely on the "go to x location, and "search for X" basic sub goals.

This is just the sort of thing I'd really! like to see in the game.


 
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