Enquirer Home Page | Twitter | Back to Improbable Island

 Forum Index > Season Two > Development New Topic Post Reply
 Any interest in a specialised client?
 |  Printable Version
wvf
 Wednesday, December 29 2010 @ 09:12 AM UTC (Read 13072 times)  
Forum Badass
Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 70

Hi! I've been thinking of making a stand-alone program which would act as a client for Improbable Island. Why would I want a client when I've a perfectly good web browser, you ask? Simple: Instead of fighting to the death, you would be able to fight to the major flesh wound. Big Grin
More examples:
You would be able to go into Squat Hole and click the 'drink - deposit - leave' button - automatically going to Booz, ordering both drinks, and then going to the bank and depositing the remainder of your cash there.
You would be able to go to the jungle, and click the 'auto fight-and-clean' button. Then, automatically, you go off and repeatedly look for trouble and clean it's carcass until you got too wounded or something.
You could disable the 'have a smoke' link. No more accidental ! presses for you!
Want to set your skull-mounted laser to 100?
Never want to see that sneaky dry tavern again? Can arrange!
Could even fix the abandoned factory images! Wink

These extended links would appear either mixed in with the existing nav links, or below them in the same format. *Could* be indistinguishable from any normal link.

Unfortunately, it looks like the thing is, at this point, going to be windows-oriented. wxPython, which I'll be using to do this, has a HTML browser for all operating systems. HTML, not PHP. II is written mostly in PHP. The alternative is an activeX Internet Explorer widget. (Maybe it'll run under WINE, I'll test.)

Does anyone know any previous similar projects?
CaveMan Joe, would you be pissed at me?

Anyway, before I go ahead and waste a few hours/days of my life doing this, would anyone else be interested in using it? What operating system are you using?
What features would you like to see? What do you think I should avoid?


 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Wednesday, December 29 2010 @ 11:19 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

Gah I'm totally torn in half on this idea.

On one hand, it's totally awesome and easy. Drink-deposit-leave sounds cool. And automatic timed fighting. And automated decorating! Safe me from all that tedious clicking.

On the other hand, it totally drains the fun. Who would be playing, me or the comp? Kinda sounds like a trainer/bot thing. And a dedicated client sounds very limited. I think a lot of this could be done via extensions or greasemonkey scripts, in Firefox/Opera/Chrome/any decent browser.

Let's see, last I checked there was RIP - Remove It Permanently. That could take the cig smoke link away. Same with fight to the death.
The abandoned factory images could possibly be fixed by fiddling with the hosts file.. Or CMJ could finally fix it, seriously, it's 5 images to replace.

Heck, you could probably make an extension/client that maps the factory as you go along.

I'm on WinXP SP2. I'd definitely have a look at it. Would I use it instead of a browser? And keep using it? I don't know.

Have a look at the greasemonkey script on these very forums for more ideas. The truancy meter is very handy, and so is the Quest tracker.


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Matthew
 Wednesday, December 29 2010 @ 02:27 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 578

On one hand, I'm sure we can all agree that combat is boring and it always will be. That's not CMJ's fault; being a browser game really limits your options. The real reason we play this game is the roleplaying, right? And so it seems alright with me to cut down on the time spent doing the fighting.

On the other, a lot of what you're suggesting practically sounds like a cheat. There's a reason fishing bots and such are bannable offenses in most MMOs. Maybe the grinding makes everything else all the more worthwhile, I dunno.

edit: I run Windows 7 Pro.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Count Sessine
 Wednesday, December 29 2010 @ 11:56 PM UTC  
Forum Moderator
Moderator

Status: offline

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 1402

It does sound exactly like a cheat.

Maybe you're clever enough to figure out how to get around the measures intentionally built into the game engine to prevent this sort of thing, but either writing it, or using it, sounds to me like a quick way to get yourself banned.

If some players are cheating, that casts a shadow over everyone's fun.

(@ Matthew: Believe it or not, for a lot of players, combat is not boring, it's the whole reason they play the game. Island roleplaying is wonderful, unique, extraordinary, and amazingly awesome -- by and large it is the highest priority for the garrulous crowd posting here in the forums -- but that is no reason to countenance something that would strip all value out of the rest of the game.)


 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Friday, December 31 2010 @ 02:22 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Quote by: Count+Sessine

It does sound exactly like a cheat.

Maybe you're clever enough to figure out how to get around the measures intentionally built into the game engine to prevent this sort of thing, but either writing it, or using it, sounds to me like a quick way to get yourself banned.

If some players are cheating, that casts a shadow over everyone's fun.

(@ Matthew: Believe it or not, for a lot of players, combat is not boring, it's the whole reason they play the game. Island roleplaying is wonderful, unique, extraordinary, and amazingly awesome -- by and large it is the highest priority for the garrulous crowd posting here in the forums -- but that is no reason to countenance something that would strip all value out of the rest of the game.)



I don't know how this is cheating at all. All of these actions are just macro'd version of several clicks, done automatically. Beyond timed fighting, there is nothing in this game which is based on "skill". It's all purely strategic decision-making. How is pressing a button that {loads the bar, loads the first drink, loads the bar, loads the Wanker page, loads the bar, loads the outpost, loads the bank, loads the deposit page, presses the "enter" button} constitute cheating? It's all the actions you would press, but done faster and with less clicks. It is absolutely totally different from something like an FPS where your crosshairs will always be on the enemy and it shoots with precise timing.

Edit:

To wvf, I personally wouldn't be interested in it. Loading up a client to play the game feels a bit... eh. I like the simplicity that it's a browser game.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Zolotisty
 Friday, December 31 2010 @ 02:53 AM UTC  
Forum Moderator
Moderator

Status: offline

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 570

Fred, mate, I'm going to have to disagree with you. While, as you observe, the proposed client would only provide a streamlined macro to run several actions in a go, there seems to me to be a distinction between a user sitting at their console of choice and actively selecting their strategies one by one and a user creating a series of scripts to automate these actions for them. There are other games where you can earn tiny niggly bits of game cash by simply traveling around the site; refresh-bots are banned on such games for the simple fact that there ain't nobody at the helm. Sure, the end result is the same -- refreshes and game cash for the player, but there's intentionality missing, and a bot can play indefinitely. A player can't.

wvf isn't proposing a total automation bot, but I think the metaphor holds because it's showcased in smaller bits in his proposed functionality -- like junglefighting automatically until you hit a set level of HP, then automatically healing, re-entering the Jungle, and continuing to fight. I can imagine this working just the same for map travel and cratesearches. I can imagine this working just the same for the bloody fucking TEDIOUS matter of leveling your Insults and Cooking skills in the academies. At that point, it's not a player playing the game. It's the client, though the player might occasionally intervene to make some decision from on high. It sits poorly with me for those reasons.

You're right that sommat like bar-drink-bar-wanker-bar-outpost-bank-deposit-completethedeposit isn't necessarily cheaty, but the other stuff is suspect, and it's just as quick to memorize the keyboard shortcuts and ping through each page as necessary.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Friday, December 31 2010 @ 04:28 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Well, I don't like the idea of making the client because automating so much of the game simply sounds not fun. I would say it's outside the spirit of the game. But I definitely see why wvf so eagerly and openly suggests it--because he, like I, don't see it strictly as cheating. Games often support macros because they're just to remove tediousness. If this client only meant that you could repeat an action like Cleaning Carass at Maiko's, holy shit I'd be all over that. This proposal goes beyond my idea of fun because I don't stick with strategic rules, and make different decisions on the fly rather often (tactical choices). The conditionals capability is what ruins it for me--that means I don't need to make my decisions either. But I'm not inclined to call it cheating, because you do make the strategy choices and have conditional tactics.


 
Profile Email
Quote
wvf
 Saturday, January 01 2011 @ 02:02 AM UTC  
Forum Badass
Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 70

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone! I think that the general consensus is that this would be touchy.
I will eliminate all decision-capability in the product, as it seems to be too close cheating. The focus for the alpha will be mostly on adding stuff like 'fight coarse (x10)' and 'do lesson (repeat)'. I'd really hate it if the client took the fun out of the game (especially for those not using it), but I don't subscribe to the idea that grinding highlights the fun bits. (For instance, no improvement I do to Maiko's Cooking Academy will thrill Iron Chef Carter, for it will only make the work he did to achieve Iron Chef status worth less.) I'll also have a look at the role-playing interface, since that would be an unambiguous not-negative-to-others thing to tweak.


Why not greasemonkey? I don't want to learn Javascript right now.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Matthew
 Saturday, January 01 2011 @ 02:05 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 578

Quote by: wvf

'fight coarse (x10)'


oh god this would be incredible


 
Profile Email
Quote
Beeps
 Wednesday, January 05 2011 @ 07:57 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 400

Quote by: wvf

(For instance, no improvement I do to Maiko's Cooking Academy will thrill Iron Chef Carter, for it will only make the work he did to achieve Iron Chef status worth less.)]


Iron Chef? I don't see his name at level 100 cooking. Cool

I actually, for a very long time have done all my skill grinds by hand. It wasn't until I got Carcass Cleaning to 85-90 and was looking at needing three times the experience I'd gained thus far. To get the last eight levels of Carcass cleaning, I'm still looking at 3,000,000 experience or so, after spending many days and money getting the 3,600,000 that I've gotten thus far. Given that it's literally sitting and pushing P for half an hour (Note that unlike Reinforcement, you can't do "ten lessons") I can't say that I feel that bad about making a "Press P" macro and reading a book at my computer, babysitting as needed. There's no RP value in working on these skills, aside from me doing a couple of "Looking confused when Maiko kicks me out, claiming I'm tired" posts when I finish one of these stints.

In short, while I disagree with automating things that require multiple key presses, such as navigation of shops, I can't see any issue with automating simple tasks. I've actually considered suggesting options to speed the other things along. No one minds spending 200% stamina on a dwelling room. No one wants to spend an hour pressing A.


Goat Collector
 
Profile Email
Quote
dizzyizzy
 Wednesday, January 05 2011 @ 09:28 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 503

Having spent over an hour pumping the "c" button yesterday for no reason other than I want to climb the confusing insults leaderboard, I wholeheartedly support the fight confusing x10 or to the death (though that last one wouldn't've worked well on the titan).


 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Wednesday, January 05 2011 @ 10:24 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Programming/SDK-DDK/Auto-Typer-And-Auto-Clicker.shtml

Runescape auto typer/clicker.

I'm not afraid to admit that I use this for tedious tasks like decorating, learning with Maiko or Cuthbert and exploiting [ ... ].


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 07:54 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Is it bragging or shamefully admitting when I say that I grinded Cooking, Cleaning the Carcass, and all 3 Insults all to 100? At Kittania, I couldn't even mindlessly repeat until out of stamina, because I BOUGHT WHITE SPRINGS WATER EVERY TWENTY ACTIONS.

On that note, drinks should also fill the player up a bit.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Beeps
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 08:02 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 400

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Is it bragging or shamefully admitting when I say that I grinded Cooking, Cleaning the Carcass, and all 3 Insults all to 100? At Kittania, I couldn't even mindlessly repeat until out of stamina, because I BOUGHT WHITE SPRINGS WATER EVERY TWENTY ACTIONS.

On that note, drinks should also fill the player up a bit.


All other drinks do. That's an issue that's been brought up before. Frown

And I'm working on it! Carcass cleaning is a bitch. Only ~2.2 million experience to go!


Goat Collector
 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 08:31 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Is it bragging or shamefully admitting when I say that I grinded Cooking, Cleaning the Carcass, and all 3 Insults all to 100? At Kittania, I couldn't even mindlessly repeat until out of stamina, because I BOUGHT WHITE SPRINGS WATER EVERY TWENTY ACTIONS.

On that note, drinks should also fill the player up a bit.


All other drinks do. That's an issue that's been brought up before. Frown

And I'm working on it! Carcass cleaning is a bitch. Only ~2.2 million experience to go!



If I remember rightly, I actually spent more than 3 hours doing nothing but pressing that key and listening to my MP3 player.

God, my life is lonely.





Wink


 
Profile Email
Quote
Matthew
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 09:47 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 578

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Is it bragging or shamefully admitting when I say that I grinded Cooking, Cleaning the Carcass, and all 3 Insults all to 100?.


I did it for Cooking and Cleaning. Still working at the insults!

oh god where has my life gone

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I BOUGHT WHITE SPRINGS WATER EVERY TWENTY ACTIONS.


Wait- white spring water does something?


 
Profile Email
Quote
Beeps
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 09:58 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 400

Quote by: Matthew

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Is it bragging or shamefully admitting when I say that I grinded Cooking, Cleaning the Carcass, and all 3 Insults all to 100?.


I did it for Cooking and Cleaning. Still working at the insults!

oh god where has my life gone

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I BOUGHT WHITE SPRINGS WATER EVERY TWENTY ACTIONS.


Wait- white spring water does something?


Err. Well, it gives you 1% stamina, as well as... whatever buff. And because you can't get full off them... yeah. If you want to spend twenty minutes getting your stamina back to 100%...


Goat Collector
 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 04:06 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

More importantly, it lowers the stamina cost of all actions by 20% for 20 turns.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Beeps
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 05:50 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 400

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

More importantly, it lowers the stamina cost of all actions by 20% for 20 turns.


Oh! Wait, I was thinking of the vegetable cider. Oops!


Goat Collector
 
Profile Email
Quote
tehdave
 Thursday, January 06 2011 @ 05:52 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 429

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

More importantly, it lowers the stamina cost of all actions by 20% for 20 turns.


and it stacks with Coffee, which does the same thing.
(Stacks multiplicative, I believe, so it'd become 80% of 80%, so 64% stamina cost for actions whenever the buffs overlap.


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
Profile Email
Quote
Content generated in: 1.60 seconds
New Topic Post Reply



 All times are UTC. The time is now 04:23 AM.

Normal Topic Normal Topic
Locked Topic Locked Topic
Sticky Topic Sticky Topic
New Post New Post
Sticky Topic W/ New Post Sticky Topic W/ New Post
Locked Topic W/ New Post Locked Topic W/ New Post
View Anonymous Posts 
Anonymous users can post 
Filtered HTML Allowed 
Censored Content