I've done 10 DKs now and I can honestly say that scavenging is harsh on newbies. I understand that it takes A LOT of time to make better gear, etc, but the fact that Cyber City is REALLY far out of the way for a newbie to get to. We all started as a human and therefore had to level up at New Home. I don't think I ever really made it to actually start scavenging until I was at 5 DKs or so. It was just too difficult to make the round trip from Cyber City to New Home until I had enough junk in my vending machine to start having the req to visit the travel agents.

So I guess my question is scavenging geared solely for folks with 10+ Drive Kills? Because as it stands right now, the new player doesn't really get to do it or benefit from it all that much. (and on a side note many MANY people keep telling newbies to scavenge and I really didn't understand what they meant because I couldn't ever get to Cyber City enough to see how it was worthwhile.)


My 2 cents on that bit.

Fodder Kid

I really can't say what scavenging is "geared towards". Personally, I didn't start scavenging until about my 4th or 5th drive kill, and am now up to level 50, after numerous trips there.

When you first start, the money you make there really won't even cover the airfare to get there, leaving you with the option of walking or getting the req from other sources. Realistically, until you have a Kittybike, you probably won't have the turns to walk there either, and keep in mind that you have to get back to New Home to process the raw material into req.

I feel that, as it stands at the moment, scavenging isn't something you really can get into until you have the spare req to get there often, and doesn't really start to benefit you much until you've invested in it. Eventually you reach a point where it provides more than enough profit for airfare, DK starts and so on, but it takes WORK! Which is what its about. Can you live without it? Definitely! Does it make life easier? Yep! Do you have to remember to go to CC404 every day, go into the scrapyard, meticulously spend every turn, every day, paying attention to whats going on so you always gather the current best material, holding onto it until after the drive kill, walk down to New Home all but naked and then spend fifteen minutes grinding parts into usable parts, then grinding those parts into equipment for sale, over and over, until you have enough XP from those sessions to afford good starting equipment? Oh goddess yes!

Is it worth it? That's completely up to you. It has been, for me. On an average run I start with enough req to start with the debris thrower, as long as I have spent two days on the run, making sure to gather materials. I don't have enough materials in one day drive kills to manage that.

Your mileage may vary, please see dealer for details, warranty exclusions may exist in Kansas, Utah, Texas and any country that includes the letter F.

I'm at less than 10 DKs, I think, and the trick to scavaging is to start on your first DK. I just used the travel agents as soon as I could and just stayed in CC404 mostly until my first DK was done. You need to invest Req into it at first, but your return carries over through DKs.

It's been mentioned in other places, but I'll bring it up again since this is a scavenge-specific thread: the scavenging tables need an overhaul. I've been keeping track of experience for scavenging metals and making items, and have found the following numbers:

Item level | XP earned^* | Req earned^*
1............................80...................300
2..........................110...................600
3..........................160.................1350

4........................1200.................4800
5........................1100.................3750
6........................1150.................5400

7........................2100...............14700
8........................1850.................9600
9...(haven't gotten here yet, but I'm guessing the trend continues)

* Carried out over 20 turns (2 days) worth of scavenging. I did this because some items only require 1 adapted metal to make, while others require 2 adapted metals to make, and since most adapted metals require 2 scavenged items to adapt, you can only make 5 adapted metals per day. Therefore, to make a whole number of equipment that require 2 adapted metals , you need 2 days' worth of scavenging. Also, the XP earned column factors in scavenging items, adapting them, and then building and selling the equipment.

It becomes obvious to anyone who's paying attention that making items that only require 1 adapted metal is far more profitable (both in XP and req). Those items are (assuming the trend continues) level 4, 7, 10, and 13. So now we see why we've run out of level 15 gear, and also why there's an excess of level 4, 7, 10, and 13 gear (armor fits this trend more dramatically, but it's still present in weapons).

One option would be to reduce the price / xp that one gets for those levels, or make everything (with the exception of level 1 gear) cost 2 adapted metals to make.

If everything cost 2 metals (except level 1 gear), then the table would look like this:

Item level | XP earned^* | Req earned^*
1............................80...................300
2..........................110...................600
3..........................160.................1350

4..........................600.................2400
5........................1100.................3750
6........................1150.................5400

7........................1050.................7350
8........................1850.................9600

* Again, based on 2 days of scavenging.

One thing to notice here is at level 7, xp drops slightly compared to level 6, then jumps back up at level 8, but req stays a nice, steady increase. The xp drop might be more dramatic at the higher levels, and therefore cause people to not make as much gear from those levels, but I'm not sure since I'm not there yet. This change would also call for a change in the xp-leveling requirement (unless you wanted to make it harder to level up on those few levels).


As a final note, I think once a player has maxed out his/her scavenging ability, then the table should change so that the player can make any item from any metal, and get the same amount of req no matter what they've made (or have them able to find only one type of metal, some Supermetal, which can be used to make any item). The only reason I suggest this is so the highest level players can start producing equipment that is running out but still have it worth their while. Perhaps give them more scavenging turns too, so they can make more gear faster, or have every item only cost 1 Supermetal to make. I know the idea is that as more people start from the ground and work their way up, then all levels of weapons and armor should be replenished, but when you don't have as many low-level players making gear (or if they all have passed level 1 already) then you start running out, as we have (at the time of writing, there are only 73 Strategically-Positioned Cans left).

We keep telling Newbies to buy there, so it's not surprising that they've actually listened.

An influx of new players means a surge in demand. The Strategically-Positioned Cans actually ran out completely at one point. A comment by Walker in NewHome alerted me, and I've been trying to do something about it. Since I'm working (Sorry, CMJ, but Scavenging is a simulation of Work) diligently on my scavenging stat to get up to the point where I can start helping to replenish the top level armor and weapons, I haven't felt I had turns to spare to go back to collecting rings and cans. I have, however, been using clan funds to buy up inexpensive rings and cans occasionally on the open market, and from fellow clan members who deliberately lower their prices (did you know you can set a price of zero?), and adapting and assembling them without waiting for a DK, just to fill the gap.

The xp and reqs are incidental. What's important is that Newbies should have armor they can buy.

If the lower items keep getting low maybe it would be possible to re-vamp the system to where instead of being able to make a level 4 item, you could make 4 level 1 items for the same req and exp. That way us better savaging folks could still add lower items without the loss.

That's a stonking great idea, Fodder.
(Ability to make 4 low-level items versus 1 big one).

Let me add something to that:
It's always struck me as odd that Koga knows Jack about supply and demand. Keeps paying the same flat price based on the item, not whether it's moving.
Seems he ought to pay more for items he's short of, and less for items he's darned near maxed on.

Or! He might note in the dialogue that he's running low on something. You can't see the inventory when you're in the workshop banging out shiny. In my case, I typically get through the whole thing as quickly as possible -- armor one session, or weapons in another -- without much thought to what's in the inventory.

In fact, lately, I've just been reserving a suit and a weapon for myself, and wading into the jungle with that, until I have req for something nicer.

If the primary idea behind scavenging is to increase the ability of players to build stuff for themselves to make them more self-reliant, rather than req-reliant, then I would like to see the ability to modify weapons, or make add-ons. No reason why scavenged weapons have to be buffless crap. Furthermore, I'd like to see the ability to gift scrap-made weapons to other players.

There's also no reason why scrap need only be found in one place. Scrap could also be found in the Jungle, be dropped by monsters (particularly mechanical ones) following kills, or found in crates.

Also, why not allow scrap to be like a medikit for ro/gobots? Or be able to build stuff to attach to your mount? Say weapons. Or armor. Or wings. Or giant jet-powered turbines. Maybe one could build a mount completely from scrap.

Right now scavenging is really quite limited. You get it from CC. You bang it together in NH. You get req for it. Newbies buy goods for cheap. Otherwise it remains completely disconnected from the rest of the island, the outposts, and fails to feed much player interactivity.

First cup of coffee just arrived.

All my best,

~CrashTestPilot

My Kiitymount has made it quite clear that she does not want a giant jet-powered turbine stuck up her posterior thank you very much.
Mind you, it would make for a dramatic increase in 'angry cat' weapons.

On a more serious note, if what is wanted to ensure a stock of weapons for Newbies, then this would be better done by removing the inventory and just allow these things to be from some indefinite supply, rather than relying on higher level players to keep an eye on it. Although this could be seen as an excellent example of the altruism that we like so much, it's invisible altruism. Newbies won't see it until it's not there, so it's rather less good at generating that warm fluffy feeling.
This has only started happening recently, so pretty much everyone here went through their low levels with plenty of stock, limited only by how much req they had, and it didn't seem to work at all badly then.

I'm a new player (just got my first drive kill!) and I started scavenging weeks ago. I don't find the Travel agents are really that bad of a deal since I spend two days in Cyber City when I visit. Yes I lost req on every trip, but I'm gaining valuable experiance and at the start of this DK I was able to save a significant amount of money by making my own weapon and armor.

If Koga pays a sliding rate based on his inventory (which i think is a great idea) there should be a way for someone in Cyber City 404 to make a phone call to New Home to see what the market looks like. It might be a public pay phone, or it might be a quest reward of some sort. And maybe Koga gives more detailed information to people who have a history of building him the things he wants. And maybe if you're really nice to him and he really likes you, he'll lock in a price for a certain number of items.

As another idea, maybe Koga will buy the raw salvage in bulk at a cut rate in both req and salvage skill points if you don't feel like grinding the equipment. Then he could sell the salvage to people who did have the time and they could grind the equipment out.

Well, you said you wanted ideas. You didn't say you wanted *simple* ones. :-)

that would rule. I used to loathe scavenging and didn't really see the point to it, but now that I am watching the levels fly by, it's enjoyable.