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 Storing new days, reverse gauntlet
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Matthew
 Monday, November 14 2011 @ 05:31 PM UTC (Read 1980 times)  
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I had a thought, earlier, when I logged on to a fantastic Joker day then got instantly hit with a new day the next page refresh because I forgot to check the time. Could there be a system where, perhaps, if you're logged in, when a new day hits you have the opportunity to shove it in a chronosphere and continue with the day you have, or take it right then? It would solve the "I used a builder's brew and forgot to check the time" thing, and it would make me stop feeling like I have to wait to log on if there's less than an hour left on the clock. I don't like feeling like I have to follow strict log-on times to get the most out of a game day.

Next idea:
There ought to be a more reliable way to shed excess HP. I wouldn't call the old man encounter reliable. The algorithm for how strong monsters are in relation to your max HP seems pretty strange, to the point where having a higher HP actually puts you at a pretty severe disadvantage. That seems like an intrinsically broken concept to me, but that's for another day.

Anyway, if that's something that can't be fixed, I'm going to suggest a sort of anti-gauntlet, where you can trade your permanent bonus HP for cigs or req or something.


 
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Sonny
 Monday, November 14 2011 @ 05:53 PM UTC  
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Hah, anti-gauntlet sounds nice Laughing Out Loud


 
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Awesome Fred
 Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 03:05 AM UTC  
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Storing incoming days is nothing new, and could work. It's just a completely different system.

I used to play an online browser game called Aegis, and like many games similar to it, it simply gave you an extra Turn each hour that passed. In fact, I think Kingdom of Loathing uses the very same mechanic, so anyone who's played that game here should instantly know what I'm talking about.

You actively Spend a turn to do things, and amass them passively.

Instead of instantly activating a new day every 4 hours, we could simply accrue Chronosphere fills every 4 hours, and actively have to hit "Next day!" when we want to ever get to the next day. This means that we'd probably want to fluff up the Use Saved Day page so it actually seems more in-character than fourth-wall-breaking.




As for the anti-gauntlet, it's been discussed already. The answer is no, at least for cigs. CMJ doesn't intend on letting you get cigs for spending Max HP. The current system to avoid the HP problem is to use Tynan's gym every so often.

My mouth waters for the day when CMJ opens the gates and says, "Alright, time to do the combat rewrite for Season 3! Gimme suggestions!" Until then, HP will stay stupid.


 
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Omega
 Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 10:41 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred


As for the anti-gauntlet, it's been discussed already. The answer is no, at least for cigs. CMJ doesn't intend on letting you get cigs for spending Max HP. The current system to avoid the HP problem is to use Tynan's gym every so often.p]



I think he actually means an anti-gauntlet where you spend requisition and cigarettes to lose health, actually!
I do know I'll use it and I'll use it often.


There are two secrets to success. The second one is to never reveal all your secrets.
 
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Zolotisty
 Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 10:47 AM UTC  
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Pending the number of empty Chronospheres you've got on hand and the amount of time you're willing to sit at the computer, this would allow people:

- complete a 'one day' DK when they hadn't actually done it in under four hours
- exploit Barn Raisers 'n' similar
- unfairly grind when they've got lovely stats

There are probably other problems that would arise out of this as well, that I'm too sleepy to think of.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Matthew
 Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 05:25 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Zolotisty

- complete a 'one day' DK when they hadn't actually done it in under four hours
- exploit Barn Raisers 'n' similar
- unfairly grind when they've got lovely stats



1 and 3:
I can't remember when I have ever, ever, ever been restricted by the four hour time limit and not by my amount of stamina, in the entire time I've been playing this game, when I've started a new day with at least a couple hours to spare. Even when I've had like .1% stamina costs to Hunting - Suicidal and three mutant steaks, it's pretty manageable to finish fighting down to 30%-40% (about as low as I like going) in about an hour.

Being able to store new days would fix accidentally logging on with only 20 minutes to spare and not enough time to finish the day in. It would also solve people (or maybe it's just me) feeling like they have to wait to log on if there's less than half of the day left. If you're logged off, New Days should happen like normal, but if you're online, the newday rolling over should just put you on a "would you like to take this new day or shove it in a chronosphere?" page.

It also makes no sense from an in-character perspective. As soon as midnight rolls over every character, no matter what they might be doing, drops to the floor for a minute-long nap? While the mental image of the entirety of Kittania flopping to the ground at once is pretty funny...

2:
You can do that already, anyway.


 
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talkydoor
 Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 10:09 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew


1 and 3:
I can't remember when I have ever, ever, ever been restricted by the four hour time limit and not by my amount of stamina, in the entire time I've been playing this game, when I've started a new day with at least a couple hours to spare. Even when I've had like .1% stamina costs to Hunting - Suicidal and three mutant steaks, it's pretty manageable to finish fighting down to 30%-40% (about as low as I like going) in about an hour..



I have. My one-days (plural, I think, but it was a while ago) were all agonies of me desperately tapping my feet, trying to keep the blood flowing through my body so I could hit SHIFT+8 and finish in time. And they were all close. I seem to remember being cheated out of a 1-day while hunting for the Drive, which was just upsetting. You may have heard my screams from wherever you are. Smile

Actually, I thought CMJ was thinking about implementing this a while ago. Maybe it got abandoned for Z's very good reasons.


 
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Docenspiel
 Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 11:12 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew
1 and 3:
I can't remember when I have ever, ever, ever been restricted by the four hour time limit and not by my amount of stamina, in the entire time I've been playing this game, when I've started a new day with at least a couple hours to spare. Even when I've had like .1% stamina costs to Hunting - Suicidal and three mutant steaks, it's pretty manageable to finish fighting down to 30%-40% (about as low as I like going) in about an hour.[/p]


Then why not just give you that one hour? If the first time you log in on a Newday, if there is less than one hour until the next Newday, you can add on time until you've had one hour of that day. So if you log on and there's 20 minutes left, when those 20 minutes are up and Newday occurs, you get a screen asking if you want the Newday or continue with the old day for 40 more minutes.


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, November 16 2011 @ 12:03 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Zolotisty

Pending the number of empty Chronospheres you've got on hand and the amount of time you're willing to sit at the computer, this would allow people:

- complete a 'one day' DK when they hadn't actually done it in under four hours
- exploit Barn Raisers 'n' similar
- unfairly grind when they've got lovely stats

There are probably other problems that would arise out of this as well, that I'm too sleepy to think of.



What's the problem with one-day DKs that aren't done under four hours? One-day DKs mean completed in one game day, not in 4 real hours. If you can manage to amass the appropriate stamina, acquire the exp you need, and do everything right, you can perform it without starting another day. That's the challenge. NOT if you can click fast. This game is subject to lag from poor internet connections. Some people might have the strategy and tactical decision making to perform a 1-day DK, but not the internet to perform a 4-hour DK. Let's reward them for having the former, not turn them down for having the latter.

You already can exploit Barn Raisers. I ended up NOT exploiting it because I accidentally exited to the map before I could stop myself. Barn Raisers were a one-time fix, and if ever a similar situation were to happen, they could be implemented differently in the new system. (Barn Raisers reduce stamina costs to exactly 1 point of stamina, perhaps--it's 100,000 to 1% stamina if I recall correctly, so it just gives you a hundred thousand times more actions in a single day.)

There's nothing unfair about that grind. Again, the character has gotten their lovely stats for that day. That game day. There's nothing unfair about them continuing to grind past the 4 hours, because everyone's limiting factor is stamina, not time.





Lemme restate that for emphasis. The major limiting factor for what you can accomplish in a game day should be stamina, not time.





There's nothing intrisically wrong or unfair about changing the Newday system to be always triggered, never automatic. Things can always be rebalanced. The only concerns are if the system will be better/more enjoyable, and whether it will be too much work to justify the system change.


 
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Count Sessine
 Wednesday, November 16 2011 @ 03:27 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

The only concerns are if the system will be better/more enjoyable, and whether it will be too much work to justify the system change.

System newdays are pretty deeply embedded in the architecture of the LoTGD engine. A lot of things are set to happen when the game day rolls over. Granted, with enough ingenuity the basic structure could probably be papered over and hidden from players, but, um, this is not a tiny change we're talking about.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, November 16 2011 @ 05:42 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

The only concerns are if the system will be better/more enjoyable, and whether it will be too much work to justify the system change.

System newdays are pretty deeply embedded in the architecture of the LoTGD engine. A lot of things are set to happen when the game day rolls over. Granted, with enough ingenuity the basic structure could probably be papered over and hidden from players, but, um, this is not a tiny change we're talking about.



I wholeheartedly agree. I really do like the idea of disabling auto-New Day and making every day activated by Chronosphere, but I 100% recognize that it's an enormous change. However, since the goal of Improbable Island appears to be a weaning off of Legend of the Green Dragon and into what appears to be an original system CMJ calls Dragonbones, I think it's good for the idea to be presented here. I'm in favor of the change, but if it'll ever happen, it's years away from happening, I'd imagine.


 
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