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 How do I "Untrust" Someone?
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Nekops
 Wednesday, May 09 2012 @ 10:21 PM UTC (Read 3295 times)  
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Hey there everyone, I've finally finished the bare bones of my Place and am jumping into the programming scene! Well, dipping my toe in, anyway. I have the Creator Bundle, so I have a ridiculous amount of stuff at my disposal, but there's one thing I can't figure out...

So. I have a hidden, locked room in my place, for just myself and someone I trust implicitly (as yet unfound, but I'm an optimist and planning ahead). The door to this room is controlled via two programs, the first is at the front door and is called "Who are You?" This program is very simple, it checks to see if you have my Momento of Complete Trust. If you do, it sets the "One of Us?" variable to 1 (true) and otherwise it leaves it at 0 (false).

The second program checks the value of "One of Us?" and, if it's 1, unlocks the door for that person and reveals it. Otherwise, it stays both locked and invisible.

Now, I was thinking, "This is pretty neat," so I set about to mirror this system from the other side. Instead of defining someone who I do trust, I want to be able to define, manually or otherwise, who I don't. For those folks, the door to my Guest Room would be locked, while for the rest of the world it would stand open and allow access to my beds. This would be used mostly to keep the frequent lurkers out once I have to kick them too many times to free up sleeping space, and the room (and beds) would be clearly marked as a warning.

The only problem is finding the right Contrivance... I can't give my enemies a Momento manually and then check for it, because they can drop it. I can't seem to be able to set anything else that will stick to them, or recognize them by name, so that I can tag them with a Memory saying they're not welcome.

Any suggestions? Again, I have a pretty cool assortment of tools at my disposal, so roundabout ways are fine... I just can't seem to hit this blind spot with 'em.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Wednesday, May 09 2012 @ 11:32 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

Quote by: Nekops

This is unneccessary, of course, if there's some way to manually set Memory values to certain characters... but I don't know of one.


It's in the pipeline, I believe. There was a thread on it, though I can't find it. Maybe others can?


From the other place, for completeness.


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Thursday, May 10 2012 @ 12:19 AM UTC  
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At the moment, I can only think of one way to mark someone as 'undesirable' with programming and/or mementoes alone.

Your best bet is something along the lines of defining the people you hate by something like clan and gender, maybe even DK.

Say you hate me. You can make sure that my character CLOG cannot get in by telling your program to lock out anyone with less than 2 DK's who is female and in ICEE (I think so anyway, I've not done too much tinkering with the clan or DK level stuff).

I believe that's the only way, but not so bad. You can get pretty specific with those sorts of things if you add them up right.

-Rose


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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Nekops
 Thursday, May 10 2012 @ 04:52 AM UTC  
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Aye, thanks for that... adding up some intersecting traits might do in a pinch, if I REALLY needed to keep somebody out and was willing to risk barring innocents to do it.

Of course, once you had a couple more DKs under your belt, or changed races, or visited the Doc in Pleasantville, my code would stop recognizing you anyway and only inconvenience folks. I don't think I hate anyone that much.

Fortunately, I've not met anyone I hate yet... not here, at least. So there's time. ^^

@Full Metal Lion: That would be great, if it's on the way. It just seems odd that you can kick someone from your bed or Place by name, but that there's no way to keep them out without locking out most people.


 
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Trowa
 Thursday, May 10 2012 @ 01:50 PM UTC  
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I've thought a little bit about this subject, myself. I don't have much helpful insight, though, besides saying that most "lurkers" who drop in and hog a bed for what seems an eternity tend to be rookies who've found a spot to leave their character and never return. So wanting to "untrust" those sorts of people won't do much in the long run, as booting them once is likely more than enough.

Now, if you truly have someone you despise for whatever reason - but let's assume it's a funny Story reason* Wink - then you'll have to get creative. Rose's ideas are a good start, but you'd need to keep on top of your "enemy" when they change their parameters, like you said, unless you both have something you can agree on (such as they make a new clan and stay in it).

Contraptions and Contrivances that relate to slots, or "sleep spots," have been suggested (e.g. length of time someone stays in one, hiding slots, auto-booting...), but (and this is purely my own speculation based on nothing CMJ or anyone else on the admin team has ever mentioned anywhere) I have the feeling we've not seen these yet because slots work differently than the rest of the Places system. I'm no programmer, though, so I can't comprehend why right now. Neutral


*Having a real reason to hate another player, though, indicates there's an issue, and the moderators are pretty good at resolving issues.


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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LydiaDefountain
 Thursday, May 10 2012 @ 06:56 PM UTC  
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how about have an area with a npc conversation like done with pages... I think there is a guide even for it.. Choose which 'negitive' answers would mark someone as a enemy and make a memory tag for it. Or you know just ask the person in sort to visit a special 'enemies only room' to tag them for it?


 
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Hairy Mary
 Thursday, May 10 2012 @ 08:05 PM UTC  
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Here's an idea. This is specifically for people who repeatedly take up beds for ages right? Do it via memento. Have a program in the room with the beds in which looks for your "Banned" memento and if it finds it, then sets your "Banned" memory and takes the memento off them.

Then when you want to ban somebody, wait till they're in bed again and gift them the memento. The program will work as soon as they get up and you won't even lose the memento unless they've left the Island permanently.

By the way Nekops, I notice that for friends, you give them your Memento Of Complete Trust (MOCT), then use two programs. First looks for MOCT and sets your One Of Us memory. The next checks your One Of Us memory and shows the door. Why not just have the second program look for MOCT and show the door? What's the point of using a memory to remember something that the memento will remember anyway? Or might you take the memento back off them while wanting to keep the memory?

Also, if the door is hidden, it really doesn't matter whether it's locked or not. So just leave it unlocked. Or is there an intermediate stage where they can see the door just not go through it?


 
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Collin-Vee
 Friday, May 11 2012 @ 09:09 PM UTC  
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I think the whole idea is to have a room seperate from the "Trusted" room, Mary. Like denying specific people something that's generally public.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Friday, May 11 2012 @ 11:58 PM UTC  
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Well yes, but the people that you want to ban are people who take up too much bed space. You can use the above method to ban anybody who you catch in one of your beds. Once you've set their memory then you make the rest of the house let them in, lock them out, or whatever else you want based on it.


 
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Collin-Vee
 Saturday, May 12 2012 @ 12:14 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Well yes, but the people that you want to ban are people who take up too much bed space. You can use the above method to ban anybody who you catch in one of your beds. Once you've set their memory then you make the rest of the house let them in, lock them out, or whatever else you want based on it.



Erm, I think he moreso means he may want to deny certain people access for story reasons, or just for the 'oh look at this' quality.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, May 12 2012 @ 12:56 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Nekops

...Instead of defining someone who I do trust, I want to be able to define, manually or otherwise, who I don't. For those folks, the door to my Guest Room would be locked, while for the rest of the world it would stand open and allow access to my beds. This would be used mostly to keep the frequent lurkers out once I have to kick them too many times to free up sleeping space, and the room (and beds) would be clearly marked as a warning.

The only problem is finding the right Contrivance... I can't give my enemies a Momento manually and then check for it, because they can drop it. I can't seem to be able to set anything else that will stick to them, or recognize them by name, so that I can tag them with a Memory saying they're not welcome.



Is what I was going on. If the target is voluntarily agreeing to it then a memento would work fine, so I was assuming that the target involved might try to get round the injunction (by dropping the memento for example).

What I was suggesting isn't perfect, you can use it to ban people while they are sleeping in your beds, but the limitations are rather different to other suggestions.

If somebody is going along with this voluntarily, then pretty much anything will work. In this case just get them into your bed for five minutes while you give them something to remember.

And as Trowa said, if there's a genuine reason to ban another player, then there's an issue going on, call a mod in.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, May 12 2012 @ 07:17 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

And as Trowa said, if there's a genuine reason to ban another player, then there's an issue going on, call a mod in.

Yes -- what he said.

It's what we're here for.


 
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Nekops
 Wednesday, May 16 2012 @ 12:07 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Here's an idea. This is specifically for people who repeatedly take up beds for ages right? Do it via memento. Have a program in the room with the beds in which looks for your "Banned" memento and if it finds it, then sets your "Banned" memory and takes the memento off them.

Then when you want to ban somebody, wait till they're in bed again and gift them the memento. The program will work as soon as they get up and you won't even lose the memento unless they've left the Island permanently.



That's a great workaround, and exactly what I was hoping someone would come up with. Thanks!

Quote by: Hairy+Mary


By the way Nekops, I notice that for friends, you give them your Memento Of Complete Trust (MOCT), then use two programs. First looks for MOCT and sets your One Of Us memory. The next checks your One Of Us memory and shows the door. Why not just have the second program look for MOCT and show the door? What's the point of using a memory to remember something that the memento will remember anyway? Or might you take the memento back off them while wanting to keep the memory?



My Memento of Complete Trust also works my weapon systems (opening up an extra Page or two for myself and my allies, as the weapons don't actually work. Unfortunately.) If I check at the door, I can have that one memory control every way in which my friends have greater access than the general public... checking for the Memento each time would actually be a bit more efficient, unless I use OneOf Us? to track foes as well... with a value like -1.

Quote by: Hairy+Mary


Also, if the door is hidden, it really doesn't matter whether it's locked or not. So just leave it unlocked. Or is there an intermediate stage where they can see the door just not go through it?



Aye, pure redundancy, that. I'll probably retrieve that Lock Door for other uses the next time I fiddle with it. Replacing the door to my Guest Room with a dummy Page version and hiding the original is more amusing to me, but I'm sure SOMEONE can put it to use. ^^

Quote by: Trowa

Now, if you truly have someone you despise for whatever reason - but let's assume it's a funny Story reason* Wink - then you'll have to get creative. Rose's ideas are a good start, but you'd need to keep on top of your "enemy" when they change their parameters, like you said, unless you both have something you can agree on (such as they make a new clan and stay in it).

*Having a real reason to hate another player, though, indicates there's an issue, and the moderators are pretty good at resolving issues.



Aye, it's just to keep the beds clear so I can provide as many New Days as possible. There's no real hatred for the lurkers on my part, and it's just my silly rule so there's sure no reason to get mods involved... but right now, at least, three lurkers could shut down my whole Place as far as sleeping goes, so I'm thinking some gentle... discouragement might be necessary. At some point.

Anyway, thanks for the input, all! I think I've got everything I need. ^^


 
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Ada
 Wednesday, May 16 2012 @ 02:00 AM UTC  
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Just kick them! Really, if it's lurkers you're worried about, I think they'll get the hint once they're knocked out of bed.


 
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