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Ada
 Saturday, September 08 2012 @ 12:43 AM UTC  
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I feel like that would just encourage sloppy roleplaying? We can get that sort of thing across in greytext and so on already, with minimal creativity. And as has been noted, unless people are really glued to the channel, they might miss it entirely.

Moreover, I think that would remove another reason for us to pay you for specials.


 
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Temper
 Saturday, September 08 2012 @ 01:11 AM UTC  
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Personally, I like the new banter. I don't even care if people are just going to be talking about random things. Yes, I could do without some of the uh. Boobhats and probably-groping-but-we're-not-using-that-word-okay, but I haven't had any problems with it!

So, I guess.

I think it's pretty okay?


 
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Omega
 Saturday, September 08 2012 @ 03:00 AM UTC  
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I feel one problem in self destructing posts is that they would allow me to cause unprecedented confusion everywhere. All the time.



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Cicero
 Saturday, September 08 2012 @ 02:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Omega

I feel one problem in self destructing posts is that they would allow me to cause unprecedented confusion everywhere. All the time.

I think this would be especially confusing for new players. It took me while just to figure out emoting and color codes without having some posts disappearing every so often.


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Saturday, September 08 2012 @ 08:55 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Cicero

Quote by: Omega

I feel one problem in self destructing posts is that they would allow me to cause unprecedented confusion everywhere. All the time.

I think this would be especially confusing for new players. It took me while just to figure out emoting and color codes without having some posts disappearing every so often.




I do like the idea of Asides but I am with Cicero here.


Would there be anyway that when starting out new on the island, we have a new page that explains newer game features, specifically roleplay ones. Perhaps even add it on as part of the rules page that pops up?


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Sartira
 Sunday, September 09 2012 @ 06:19 AM UTC  
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On berbanter
Pros
I agree that it's nice to have a way to see who might be active without traveling to an outpost (especially if you're building), but you still can't tell from the map if you're out exploring or crate hunting. I don't consider this a problem since I rarely spend a lot of time at once on the map, but if there were a banter channel available I wouldn't mind wandering around.

I like that it gives a very powerful means for mass inviting to spontaneous happenings. This is a good thing, and particularly useful if you're planning a big event in story or want to spread the word about a place or something. The message board supplements this nicely, even if does lack a convenient way to field questions.

It slso covers the fairly rare occurrences of an empty NewHome, as well as the not-so-rare occurrences of an empty Failboat. I honestly don't tend to stay on the Failboat if I can help it, among other reasons, because it's a bit isolated. I can definitely imagine a rookie (or anyone, really) getting stranded there with nobody to story or even banter with under the previous setup. It's a bit of a cycle that feeds on itself, if you're alone when you get there you don't want to stay, then the next person that finds themselves on the boat doesn't have reason to stay either. With a shared banter, at least, folks might wait around a little and chat with everyone as usual, giving some time for people to meet up on the boat and a scene to develop. And if you're unavoidably stranded, at least you're not cut off from everything.

Cons
Clunky to clarify and comment on scenes already in progress. What was once a quick post along the lines of 'My character is reacting because...' or 'Oops I meant' or 'I'm confused' or 'Where is everyone?' seems to have shifted to either distracts (fortunately with multiple recipients, but distracts are easier to miss) or out of character emoting. (This feels like a step in the wrong direction, when the previous banter setup made it (mostly) unnecessary and fairly uncommon. Some things like walls or clarifying who one is speaking to don't stick out so much within Story, but other information does)

Place-specific banter may alleviate this, but with the current all-inclusive chat space, it feels somehow wrong to comment on a scene taking place with a few others when everyone shares the same banter. In some respects it's like there's even less discussion of scenes taking place in banter because so many people won't have a clue about the context and nobody really wants to clutter up the shared space with information that's only relevant to two or three people, like half of a phone conversation.

I think the question of what banter is intended for and how it's used is a very important one, with different answers for different people. Some people focus on it as a tool in the service of story, others chat about their day and still others use it for complete silliness and cuddling. Honestly I don't think any of these are mutually exclusive of the others and used the previous system of banter for a little of everything! I greeted people, hugged, fluttered about and cracked jokes, but if I needed to comment on story I could do that. I could compliment something as particularly funny, or ask a question that would break the flow or take out a chunk of the fourth wall if it were in story. I could tell the people I needed to that I've got to go in advance or simply bid them a good night.

I think I'd like to see a more prominent (but separate) global banter channel, something that will get used more than the old global, but not the only option. My opinion might change when place specific banters are rolled out, but I've shied away from the new system because it's not as useful to do the things I did with the previous one

On auto-GREM'd comments

I'd like to add to the previous points that anyone coming across a scene later (even if only by a minute or two outside the comment's lifespan) will lose the additional humour or context these comments would provide. I like the idea of asides well enough, but feel like that's what localized banter and creative greytext is for. I'd hate to miss something if I had to wall for a minute, had an auto-update failure, or just wasn't there at the right time.


 
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Iriana
 Sunday, September 09 2012 @ 06:53 AM UTC  
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The idea of having more than two channels (Story and Banter) keeps coming up, so while we're at it, why not three: Story, Story Banter, and Banter Banter*?

* less ridiculous name to be determined at future date


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Sunday, September 09 2012 @ 04:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana
The idea of having more than two channels (Story and Banter) keeps coming up, so while we're at it, why not three: Story, Story Banter, and Banter Banter*?

Allow me to reply in a flippant manner:



Also, I'm really liking One True Banter, because, as the globe-trotter I am, it's nice to be able to still talk to people while in deserted Outpost.

And as for the Asides... meh. I don't really see why you can't just write, ":'s box is 6 by 6 by 6 inches, and it contains an extremely irritated badger. But you don't know that yet."


 
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Buddleia
 Monday, September 10 2012 @ 07:09 PM UTC  
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Originally posted by: MoTD
(update: yes, Places will have their Banters mucked about with more - they'll have per-room Banter, per-house Banter, global Banter or no Banter at all, within a few days)

I love the idea of a house-wide Banter channel. It'll make it much easier to coordinate RP and natter away OOC.

I was wondering, though, would having the option of a per-house Story channel rather than one per room also be useful? I've been thinking about it, and I can't make up my mind.

On one hand, you might want to separate simultaneous roleplayings, say if one person/group is in the kitchen and the other in the library and the other in the garden. Having one channel per room makes it easy to refer only to what's going on here-and-now and regarding that one room/set-of-pages' descriptions. It makes it obvious which room a person is in. And if you've got commentary commands per room, those certainly need to be activated only in the right places.

On the other hand, it can feel fragmented to leave one or two lines of RP in each room as you're going from A to B. ("Buddleia heads through the doorway, and walks along the hallway. Buddleia climbs the stairs to the first floor landing. Buddleia goes into the library. Buddleia opens the door to the study, and finally arrives at her destination." Nobody wants to read that.) It breaks the flow of the scene to move from a full page of chat suddenly into an empty page just because you clicked a navbar link to change the flavour text. (It's certainly difficult to take a log from, especially if you went back and forth. Comparing timestamps makes my brain melt.) And it makes it hard to find people if they're in multi-room places.

I guess what I'd like would be maybe just a few Story channels in my sprawling places, and to have it changeable. In some cases I'd want a house-wide Story for one scene with one person; in others I'd want a separate private channel for in-character-secret things; and if there were lots of people all doing their own thing in their own locations then that'd need a channel each. Granted, going to Master Settings and toggling Story/Banter/none is not hard, but ... huh, maybe a house-wide toggle for "set all rooms to have their own chat" and "set all rooms to use one chat channel" could work? (Though how would that work with things already posted, I wonder?)

So, I dunno. Anyone got any ideas?


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Iriana
 Monday, September 10 2012 @ 10:08 PM UTC  
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Linking everything in a house to one global channel would be--potentially uncomfortable. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of locked or secret rooms? And, er, bedrooms. I can see that getting awkward.

What if you could link up certain rooms into a 'global' Story? For example, the kitchen, living rooms, and library would share a channel, while bedrooms and your Top Secret Study would be excluded. Or you could pick any combination of those. Boy, would that be complicated. Also sort of cool. Also complicated. How would you indicate which rooms are linked and which aren't?

I can't make up my mind either. For now, I'm content with just leaving little hints in my writing to point to where I'm going--it's a bit of a challenge if I'm moving about somewhere like the Bingo Hall, but it's kind of fun to figure out a good way to do it.

Also, that was a serious suggestion: Story, Story Banter, Banter Banter. Not kidding. Any reason why that wouldn't work? (Aside from the fact that it might or might not make mobile and netbook users go blind with frustration. You could always hide one.)


 
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Matthew
 Monday, September 10 2012 @ 10:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana

Any reason why that wouldn't work?



Very cluttered.


 
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Ada
 Monday, September 10 2012 @ 11:38 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Buddleia

Originally posted by: MoTD
(update: yes, Places will have their Banters mucked about with more - they'll have per-room Banter, per-house Banter, global Banter or no Banter at all, within a few days)

I love the idea of a house-wide Banter channel. It'll make it much easier to coordinate RP and natter away OOC.

I was wondering, though, would having the option of a per-house Story channel rather than one per room also be useful? I've been thinking about it, and I can't make up my mind.

On one hand, you might want to separate simultaneous roleplayings, say if one person/group is in the kitchen and the other in the library and the other in the garden. Having one channel per room makes it easy to refer only to what's going on here-and-now and regarding that one room/set-of-pages' descriptions. It makes it obvious which room a person is in. And if you've got commentary commands per room, those certainly need to be activated only in the right places.

On the other hand, it can feel fragmented to leave one or two lines of RP in each room as you're going from A to B. ("Buddleia heads through the doorway, and walks along the hallway. Buddleia climbs the stairs to the first floor landing. Buddleia goes into the library. Buddleia opens the door to the study, and finally arrives at her destination." Nobody wants to read that.) It breaks the flow of the scene to move from a full page of chat suddenly into an empty page just because you clicked a navbar link to change the flavour text. (It's certainly difficult to take a log from, especially if you went back and forth. Comparing timestamps makes my brain melt.) And it makes it hard to find people if they're in multi-room places.

I guess what I'd like would be maybe just a few Story channels in my sprawling places, and to have it changeable. In some cases I'd want a house-wide Story for one scene with one person; in others I'd want a separate private channel for in-character-secret things; and if there were lots of people all doing their own thing in their own locations then that'd need a channel each. Granted, going to Master Settings and toggling Story/Banter/none is not hard, but ... huh, maybe a house-wide toggle for "set all rooms to have their own chat" and "set all rooms to use one chat channel" could work? (Though how would that work with things already posted, I wonder?)

So, I dunno. Anyone got any ideas?




Why bother to leave the two lines of rp in each room? Honestly it drives me nuts when people do this. Nobody wants to read that indeed! No reason not to just go straight to your destination. If you want to leave a breadcrumb trail for people, you can just say "Buddleia heads for the study" in the first room and leave people to get there on their own if they want to follow.

But why have a one-place Story channel? If you only want one Story channel for the whole thing, you can just make one room and throw on a lot of pages to describe the place. Seems to me the whole point in having multiple rooms is to have multiple story channels and places for programming.


 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, September 11 2012 @ 02:39 AM UTC  
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Also: if, for some special occasion, you did need a Place-wide chat space... well, your Place is your own sub-universe. You created it. You get to say what the rules are.

You could decree: "For today only, in here... I am turning on my Place-wide Banter, and it will be the new Story."

Just... another option to think about. Supposing you ever needed it.


 
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quinn
 Tuesday, September 11 2012 @ 04:44 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

PHP Formatted Code

---------------------------
|                         |
|                         |
|          STORY          |
|                         |
|                         |
---------------------------
|            |            |
|   LOCAL    |   GLOBAL   |
|            |            |
---------------------------
|                         |
|       NOTICEBOARD       |
|                         |
---------------------------
 


Buddleia, I'm a master at ASCII art, drop a line when you need it. Wink

EDIT: Odd, it seems a link is created when you type GLOBAL in code.



I like this idea, if it was possible without killing the site.

The Asides idea seems pretty awesome too, even if it would initially be confusing for newer members. It's just another thing to add into my Welcome distract!


 
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Harris
 Tuesday, September 11 2012 @ 05:40 AM UTC  
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Sonny: I follow every point of yours, and agree, except for why you don't want debate to happen and kept debating anyway, and why you're bringing up people who only want to post once in a thread, and do not want to post again. I really don't- you have totally lost me.

However. I do love everything else you've said, and everything else is overwhelmingly positive, so I am going to assume that you are not only not blaming anybody for anything in this discussion, you are not attacking anybody in any way. It sounded like you were pointing fingers, not peacemaking, BUT. The evidence simply does not support the idea that you have said anything bad here.

It also sounds like you're familiar with trying to run or play a tabletop roleplaying game without shenanigans, and for that, you have my sympathies.

CMJ: I like the autodestruct comments. I think the possible problems that are being cited would be easily dealt with including a description of them in the "Help" link, just like emoting and specials.

Buddleia: I like your idea! I disagree on your reasoning (including a whole new feature so that you can avoid saying "___ then walks in the library" seems wasteful), but I see FUN possibilities for a "turn global story on/off" feature like you have with Banter in your Place. Off the top of my head: realtime Public Address system announcements!


And global Banter is workin' pretty nice. Cherriki Ten roped me into what was GOING to be a one-on-one in Improbable Central, and it turned into a full on Gladiatorial battle between a Cherriki plush doll, and an Ebnezer plush doll, complete with betting, and a full audience- all beacuse we started yakking about it in Banter, and invited maybe five, six people total. Imp Central started at four people, and topped off at eighteen people before it all ended. Mr. Green


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Adder Moray
 Wednesday, September 12 2012 @ 05:09 AM UTC  
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How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.


 
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Ada
 Wednesday, September 12 2012 @ 02:06 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Adder+Moray

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.



That would be what we had before, and no one used global banter then. Presumably it would be a really easy change, because all he would have to do is revert...


 
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Agelmar
 Wednesday, September 12 2012 @ 08:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada

Quote by: Adder+Moray

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.



That would be what we had before, and no one used global banter then. Presumably it would be a really easy change, because all he would have to do is revert...



Oh, please no.
I've gotten lots of use out of Global and we've already seen lots more scenes being frequently written. Already we have seen the more out-of-the-way Outposts come to life, and I for my part have had plenty of new interactions with people I'd never gotten to roleplay with, due to whatever constrictions before.

Global is doing a lot of what I'd suspected it would and a couple things more. Now that posttimes are leveled out and the Doubters have actually had a sit-down and thought about how they could use Global, we're really reaping the benefits. From what I've observed.


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Adder Moray
 Thursday, September 13 2012 @ 02:57 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada

Quote by: Adder+Moray

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.



That would be what we had before, and no one used global banter then. Presumably it would be a really easy change, because all he would have to do is revert...



No, I am not suggesting a pop-out window. I am saying make it exactly as it is now, but switch of between outpost or island-wide as the banter next to story, so as to give players who DON'T like mandatory island-wide banter the option of a banter channel that isn't island wide, and so the people who DO like island wide banter can continue to use it.

Quote by: Agelmar

Global is doing a lot of what I'd suspected it would and a couple things more. Now that posttimes are leveled out and the Doubters have actually had a sit-down and thought about how they could use Global, we're really reaping the benefits. From what I've observed.



And I know people who it's driving off. Options don't hurt anyone, there's no reason to hold players who don't like it at gun point and force them to indulge in the system you like if allowing for options isn't difficult.


 
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Omega
 Thursday, September 13 2012 @ 12:22 PM UTC  
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Hey, hey. Just clarifying one point by an example:

You used to sell two kinds of yogurt. Strawberry and Plain. You've decided one day to stop selling Strawberry. When people come to you and ask for Strawberry yogurt and you tell them you don't sell it anymore, you are not forcing them to buy Plain yogurt. You are merely preventing them from buying Strawberry yogurt from your store.

I hope the point is made clear. Thank you!


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