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Genevieve
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 12:54 AM UTC  
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Everyone's already quoted Sessine's brilliant idea but oh my god it is such a good idea

I mean, I dunno that the join screen is going to be the same in s3, but the first time I joined, ever, I assumed I was logging in with a handle, not my character's name

Having an OOC handle to keep people separate from their characters is damn brilliant and will probably help solve a lot of problems in the long run. It also makes this whole logging in as one person with a buttload of characters a lot easier, since it eliminates the concept of a 'main' character. Now it is My Handle and My Characters not My Main and My Alts.

I'm just saying this is super awesome.



Also yes a quick path to the Jack would be nice thank you Hairy >_> Not just to my places but paths to Places of interest would be super cool.


 
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Tiber
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 09:30 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

AND an almost entirely separate notion, born of a number of incidents that have required mod intervention over the years: maybe people could also pick an account handle that would be used in place of a character name for all of their OOC chat -- global, Place banter, Location Four (if that's still going to exist) -- no matter which of their characters happened to be active? It'd make it easier for new roleplayers (and some of them not so new) to keep in mind the distinction between 'me' and 'my characters.'



Except then we'll have people making multiple accounts so they can have secret alts like they do now, just perpetuating the problem.


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 10:53 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

AND an almost entirely separate notion, born of a number of incidents that have required mod intervention over the years: maybe people could also pick an account handle that would be used in place of a character name for all of their OOC chat -- global, Place banter, Location Four (if that's still going to exist) -- no matter which of their characters happened to be active? It'd make it easier for new roleplayers (and some of them not so new) to keep in mind the distinction between 'me' and 'my characters.'


I know it's confirmed but Yes please.

-Rose


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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Ada
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 12:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Tiber

Quote by: Count+Sessine

AND an almost entirely separate notion, born of a number of incidents that have required mod intervention over the years: maybe people could also pick an account handle that would be used in place of a character name for all of their OOC chat -- global, Place banter, Location Four (if that's still going to exist) -- no matter which of their characters happened to be active? It'd make it easier for new roleplayers (and some of them not so new) to keep in mind the distinction between 'me' and 'my characters.'



Except then we'll have people making multiple accounts so they can have secret alts like they do now, just perpetuating the problem.



Unless people are doing sneaky things like changing their IP address to make their multiple accounts, the mods will be able to see and ban them in S3, when all of a player's characters fall under their one account. Right now, multiple characters from the same IP is not against the rules, so people can have secret alts as long as they like so long as the mods don't catch them being a dick about it.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 12:23 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Tiber

Quote by: Count+Sessine

(...) maybe people could also pick an account handle that would be used in place of a character name for all of their OOC chat (...)

Except then we'll have people making multiple accounts so they can have secret alts like they do now, just perpetuating the problem.

Now, while things are still in the design stage, is indeed the time to list off all the good reasons for alts that currently exist and make sure none of them are missed. As CMJ just said, one of the main goals of the new account structure is to make sure all the good reasons are much easier to do and fully legitimate within a single account, not just a half-assed workaround. This means that the only reasons left for making multiple accounts will be the bad ones, and we will be able to enforce a rule of one account per player.

I don't think this one will be a problem. In OOC chat you'd be speaking as yourself... Out Of Character. Unless the character listing publicly displayed the account handle, which is something that could happen but there's no technical reason it would have to happen -- it might easily be a checkbox preference -- all your characters would start out secret until you told people they were yours, just like now.

(The difference would be that if a player was abusing that secrecy to be dickish with one of their characters, it would also be very easy for there to be a mod override on the 'do/don't show my account handle' switch. Not something we'd invoke often, I'm sure, but having that there as an option we could resort to would probably stop that sort of dickishness from happening in the first place.)


 
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Hairy Mary
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 03:08 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Now, while things are still in the design stage, is indeed the time to list off all the good reasons for alts that currently exist and make sure none of them are missed.



Hah! Just when you think that you've got them all, watch somebody come along with a really interesting, imaginative and non-dickish use for alts that hasn't previously been thought of. I think we may have to settle for as many as we can.

Here's a starter list.

Good Uses
To RP different characters.
To do different things with. (One a power character that you're trying to get as many high level DKs with (or whatever similar challenges that S3 sets.) - The other a builder say.)
The desire to start again so that you can see just what starting is like now that you've got a good feel of the game.

Bad Uses
To be a dick anonymously.
To act as a holder for One-shot teleports etc. (Depending on the exact mechanics of S2)


Any others that anybody can think of?


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 03:30 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Any others that anybody can think of?


Welp. As stated, I love the idea. In banter really I'm just Rose, but I look like whatever character I'm in. Therefore I default to CLOG so people know who I am consistently. This isn't so much trouble now that I have considerably less time to Island, but really blew when I wanted to banter but was in another skin. The handle solution fixes this most handily.

Thing that I am not sure where it falls:
I've heard a number of complaints about secret alts and I can't say I disagree. It's kinda weird to think you're playing with a new person and realize after awhile it's the narrator you always knew but they were lying to you about their alt. Unfortunately, looks like this will still be possible. Not sure if this is 'fixable' or really just players being sorta ass-ish to each other and therefore falling under 'dick move' land.

I'm very open about my alts for a reason. I'm a writer. I write different characters. I LOVE being able to write different characters and the idea of being locked into one horrifies me. Yay characters. I can't always write CLOG, it'd drive me insane. I want to try out the joker and the villain and the quiet mutant and the off the wall zombie comedic character. That's just... SO GREAT.

People saying they're another narrator and not being one, sorta lame.

BUT! Personal freedoms and all that. I dunno. Not sure if code can fix something like that, just throwing it into the pool of things to talk about.

I think at the very least the 'handle' means (though this has been pointed it there may still be a work around for it) at least we vaguely know who we're being friendly with in banter. Big Grin

One thing that might be weird about this new system:
Distracts. If you're 'not telling someone' who you are as a handle, will we be able to send 'in character' distracts or will it always show our handle? Seems like an obvious reason for people to maintain their 'separate accounts for secrecy' if it's not character specific?

moo.

Me, I could care less. I don't hide nada! But I think this could come up as pretttttttty important for some people.

-Rose


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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CavemanJoe
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 03:45 PM UTC  
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I reckon Distractions will work the same way as multiple email addresses in GMail. Have a drop-down "Reply from character" thingy, and an indicator of which character the Distraction was sent to.

We'll probably make characters public by default, with an option to hide them (and an accompanying "This player's hiding their characters" thing in bios).


 
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Daedalus
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 05:19 PM UTC  
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Hmm. I've only ever had one long-term alt. I have tried, I believe successfully, to ensure that I was never using it for dickish purposes.

But I have never told anyone it was my alt. Because I didn't want the alt's reception to be impacted by expectations, better or worse, brought about by readers knowing it was another creation of Daedalus' narrator . This is surely not an unfamiliar motivation for the use of a nom de plume, is it? In my case it was just wanting to experiment with writing in a very different 'voice' to the one I use for Daedalus, and to gauge reactions to that voice purely on its own merits. I suppose anyone that has interacted with both characters figured it out sooner or later anyway.

My point here is just that the use of anonymous (in particular) alts doesn't have to be only for dickish purposes.

D.


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Count Sessine
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 05:58 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Daedalus

Hmm. I've only ever had one long-term alt. I have tried, I believe successfully, to ensure that I was never using it for dickish purposes.

But I have never told anyone it was my alt. Because I didn't want the alt's reception to be impacted by expectations, better or worse, brought about by readers knowing it was another creation of Daedalus' narrator . This is surely not an unfamiliar motivation for the use of a nom de plume, is it? In my case it was just wanting to experiment with writing in a very different 'voice' to the one I use for Daedalus, and to gauge reactions to that voice purely on its own merits. I suppose anyone that has interacted with both characters figured it out sooner or later anyway.

My point here is just that the use of anonymous (in particular) alts doesn't have to be only for dickish purposes.

D.

In my experience, it's really quite rare for a player to intentionally use anonymous alts to be dickish. Nearly everyone who stays anonymous does it for perfectly legitimate creative reasons similar to yours. So, while as mods we do have to deal with those few odd exceptions, that's our job, and we have plenty of resources to handle anyone who's breaking Rule One no matter how they're doing it. I certainly don't want to see people who make the choice to be anonymous labeled in such a way as to make it look like something nasty and suspicious must be going on.

It's a matter of wording, really. A bio is about the character, not the player. So rather than "This player is hiding their characters," just have a line in the bio saying "Narrator:" and leave the value blank if the player has unchecked the box.


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 06:00 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Daedalus

My point here is just that the use of anonymous (in particular) alts doesn't have to be only for dickish purposes.

D.


You are totally right D. I'm sorry if it came off that I meant it felt that way about ALL SECRET ALTS.

It can be awesome.

I've just seen it go south when narrators begin lying and it starts one of those circles of lies that get out of control.

I can think of at least one secret alt (who I happen to know who they are) who does it deliciously well and I'm glad they have the ability to do it!

Big Grin

I support secret alts! I just... I dunno what I think. I wrote a rambling post and I still feel rambling about it.

-moo


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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Docenspiel
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 06:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary



Bad Uses
To be a dick anonymously.
To act as a holder for One-shot teleports etc. (Depending on the exact mechanics of S2)


Any others that anybody can think of?


Don't forget stalking people. This is still the internet, after all.


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
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Trowa
 Friday, August 30 2013 @ 06:28 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

It's a matter of wording, really. A bio is about the character, not the player. So rather than "This player is hiding their characters," just have a line in the bio saying "Narrator:" and leave the value blank if the player has unchecked the box.


That's a cool idea. I would like this to apply to "Spouse," too, if possible. Have it always there in the bio, just blank if the character is unmarried or their spouse is secret.


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Tiber
 Saturday, August 31 2013 @ 05:59 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Tiber

Quote by: Count+Sessine

(...) maybe people could also pick an account handle that would be used in place of a character name for all of their OOC chat (...)

Except then we'll have people making multiple accounts so they can have secret alts like they do now, just perpetuating the problem.

I don't think this one will be a problem. In OOC chat you'd be speaking as yourself... Out Of Character.



Except what if someone trying to play an RP alt and not have it associated with their main account, for whatever personal, non-dickish reason, and they want to talk in Banter, about that specific RP alt or an RP that alt is in, as that alt's player, or someone who happens to be in that RP?

Maybe there should be an option to replace your Banter Handle with the name of the character you happen to be using?


 
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Tiber
 Saturday, August 31 2013 @ 06:08 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Trowa

Quote by: Count+Sessine

It's a matter of wording, really. A bio is about the character, not the player. So rather than "This player is hiding their characters," just have a line in the bio saying "Narrator:" and leave the value blank if the player has unchecked the box.


That's a cool idea. I would like this to apply to "Spouse," too, if possible. Have it always there in the bio, just blank if the character is unmarried or their spouse is secret.



Or be awesome and use a black REDACTED bar.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, August 31 2013 @ 02:21 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Tiber

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Tiber

Quote by: Count+Sessine

(...) maybe people could also pick an account handle that would be used in place of a character name for all of their OOC chat (...)

Except then we'll have people making multiple accounts so they can have secret alts like they do now, just perpetuating the problem.

I don't think this one will be a problem. In OOC chat you'd be speaking as yourself... Out Of Character.



Except what if someone trying to play an RP alt and not have it associated with their main account, for whatever personal, non-dickish reason, and they want to talk in Banter, about that specific RP alt or an RP that alt is in, as that alt's player, or someone who happens to be in that RP?

Maybe there should be an option to replace your Banter Handle with the name of the character you happen to be using?

Confused But wouldn't that negate the whole point of a banter handle? When you are out of character, you are you. Yourself. There's only one 'you' who can be speaking.

As for talking about your anonymous character in Banter... I want to say, well, that's part of the challenge of playing an anonymous character. People do it because they want a challenge, so there's no need to make it as easy as playing a character that's identified as theirs. One option would be to use specials. That's what they're for: saying something without having your name attached. They're not free -- but, after all, some things do have to cost supporter points or we don't have a game.

A consquence of separating accounts and characters into two separate levels like this is that we're just not going to be able to pretend to be a brand new different player all over again. Anonymous characters will be clearly identifiable as someone choosing to play anonymously.

This is, on the whole, a good thing. It also means we'll be able to have new characters as much as we like without having to pretend to be a new player! In the current game, a lot of people have tried coming in as a rookie to see what it's like, and that's all well and good on the character level, but they inevitably run into the awkward fact that to sustain the image of their alt as a real rookie, sooner or later they'll end up having to lie to other players about who the alt's real-life narrator is.


 
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Skidge
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 04:30 PM UTC  
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A consquence of separating accounts and characters into two separate levels like this is that we're just not going to be able to pretend to be a brand new different player all over again. Anonymous characters will be clearly identifiable as someone choosing to play anonymously.

This is, on the whole, a good thing. It also means we'll be able to have new characters as much as we like without having to pretend to be a new player! In the current game, a lot of people have tried coming in as a rookie to see what it's like, and that's all well and good on the character level, but they inevitably run into the awkward fact that to sustain the image of their alt as a real rookie, sooner or later they'll end up having to lie to other players about who the alt's real-life narrator is.
[/p]


And that in turn leads to all sorts of issues

Example: I for one no longer bother going out of my way to talk to the rooks who strike me as being too good. They're someone I know, I assume, and go on to assume that if I ask them if they're an alt, they'll just lie about it.

And though I say 'I for one', I"m not the only one who feels that way.

I've now had...four? Five? incidents in which I have proudly gone on and on and on to people about how great this one newbie is, only to find out well after the fact (and in some cases after layers and LAYERS of deception, sometimes involving other people) that they were in fact someone tricking me ON PURPOSE or trying to experience life as a rook or whatever their reasons, it left me feeling like a chump, them feeling like jerks and the whole thing feeling rather heavier on drama than it ever needed to be.

And I don't push people on who their alts are; I ONLY CARE about whether or not characters are alts, I couldn't care less who's writing them.

So, yeah, not at all a fan of secret alts, way happier with the idea of anonymous (but obvious) alts. I don't see any non-dickhead reasons for wanting to remain secret, really. You want to figure out if people still like you outside of yourself, or see what it's like to be in someone else's skin? Awesome, anonymity allows for that. You want to see what life is as a rook, see if people are as awesome to rooks now as they were then?

I can answer that one for you; they're not. Because they are assuming any rook who can write is an alt. Get rid of that, and I, and likely others, will start going out of my way to be nice to rooks again.


 
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LydiaDefountain
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 05:58 PM UTC  
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so the whole multy character thing... so would we be able to still handle two characters at the same time... like having one character off brooding in an outpost while another tries to see if they can change the chemical composition of the sidewalks to cotton candy...

Or people role playing a butler character as well as the home owner, or a plot specific bad guy character playing to mess with both their characters and the characters friends for a nice set of storylines...

you know things that need you to post with one.. then the other... but playing them both at the same time... sometimes even in the same place and room as the other... would that still be possible with the character switching?

I know things can be done with specials. and I do use them... but 100+ can be used in one scene with auxiliary characters sometimes.. or more... But I do also have characters that lead very different lives simultaneously and I like to have them both on and role playing at the same time...


 
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CavemanJoe
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 06:35 PM UTC  
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Quote by: LydiaDefountain

so the whole multy character thing... so would we be able to still handle two characters at the same time... like having one character off brooding in an outpost while another tries to see if they can change the chemical composition of the sidewalks to cotton candy...

Or people role playing a butler character as well as the home owner, or a plot specific bad guy character playing to mess with both their characters and the characters friends for a nice set of storylines...

you know things that need you to post with one.. then the other... but playing them both at the same time... sometimes even in the same place and room as the other... would that still be possible with the character switching?

I know things can be done with specials. and I do use them... but 100+ can be used in one scene with auxiliary characters sometimes.. or more... But I do also have characters that lead very different lives simultaneously and I like to have them both on and role playing at the same time...



Logged-in character information is saved as session data. So if you can already do it using different browsers or private browsing mode or whatever, then you'll still be able to do it in S3.

EDIT: Incidentally, why oh why am I slogging through the S3 items system rewrite on a Sunday. It's Sunday.


 
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Skidge
 Sunday, September 01 2013 @ 08:04 PM UTC  
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Logged-in character information is saved as session data. So if you can already do it using different browsers or private browsing mode or whatever, then you'll still be able to do it in S3.

EDIT: Incidentally, why oh why am I slogging through the S3 items system rewrite on a Sunday. It's Sunday.[/p]


Thank goodness, I just don't know what I'd do if I couldn't go off into my little corner and talk to myself, or have eight-to-nine-person dialogues with um. Just one other writer.

It is a sickness.

Sunday is best for sloggings, yesssssssss.

At least fifteen other people agree with me. But they are all me. So make of that what you will.


 
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