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 Season Three Wild Speculation and Rumour Thread
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CavemanJoe
 Wednesday, October 02 2013 @ 10:45 PM UTC  
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I'm thinking that areas around Outposts and in common thoroughfares would be initially off-limits to building, and then we'd bring in especially awesome Places from elsewhere on the map. You're all gonna have to move your Places anyway, since the map's gonna change size and shape, but you won't have to rebuild them. You'll probably get a place-in-a-box.

The tone and story of the Island is gonna bend in some ways towards player freedom, and in other ways toward strong canon, so Places will change a little. They're gonna be cosmetically rethemed so that they can fit in with canon and so that even the craziest Place can make a kind of sense, but functionally they're gonna stay pretty much the same.


 
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Docenspiel
 Wednesday, October 02 2013 @ 11:11 PM UTC  
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What about those paths that're supposed to be going onto the map? What if we could submit ideas for Improbable Events that happen in those? Heck, give us the old Dwellings system for it, if that's possible. Find an old, abandoned cottage that used to be the home of an Orc family, a not-so-abandoned cottage with a crazy hermit, the empty battleground of where a Panthzer met a Landshark. Instead of trying to lessen canon-breaking things, I think we should promote making canon-friendly things.

I like the idea of having a section inside the outposts for personal homes. Not so much for every single Place; twenty castles don't fit in with the map, they fit even less within NewHome. But just a Residential Sector sounds like it would cut down on all the pristine, undisturbed houses and villas in a warzone but allow people to keep their private chat areas and personal sleeping spots. No Programming, no pages, no dozens upon dozens of rooms; just one room with a few sleeping spots and a chat space.

And then outside the walls, you have your standard Places as we know them now, with all the Programming and exterior design and all that jazz. Maybe make landstakes cost more. Maybe have a rating system for them like monsters? Probably a little more in-depth than a scale of 1 to 5.


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Clueless
 Wednesday, October 02 2013 @ 11:21 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

You're all gonna have to move your Places anyway, since the map's gonna change size and shape,



To put it bluntly-

Glee!

That is all.


 
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Rykar
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 12:55 AM UTC  
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The point of the Places-in-an-outpost (if we're rebooting the programming behind places anyhow) I think is so that we see hardly any places on the map at all, give it a much wilder feel. Or at least a much less heavily populated feel. Though changes to the map shape/size/style might also negate the feeling of walking-through-the-suburbs in ostensibly-thick jungle.

Oh man I can't wait for the rush to pick a good spot for my place when S3 hits.

CMJ should get out a starter gun.

And play the William Tell overture.


 
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Clueless
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 12:57 AM UTC  
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Oh yes, RykarCat, very.

I will be blitzing the lodge for sure.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 03:03 AM UTC  
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Some thoughts.

What are Places for.
Partly for RPing in. This sub divides into various different types, only one of which is as a general RP area for anybody who cares to visit.

Homes. You know the ones, you enter, there're links to kitchen, bathroom, library, master bedroom (locked). Use the description "well-stocked" in them somewhere at least once. Maybe minor variations on a theme. Nice things to have around, but I don't spend too much time looking around other peoples. Nice places that people can call their own little place, maybe with a bed in it for them. A particularly important feature of these are the locks on the bedroom I would suggest. This last feature I think possibly ups their usefulness in Island life.

Clan buildings. How much use they get depends on the clan. And also where the Place is, but still a useful role to play. Maybe outweighed by clan halls a little.

Places for general RP. Some, which tend to get used by a particular group of people.

Useful places. Beds, in particular at outposts.

Part of the world. Skronky HQ. Improbable Island Water Purification Centre.

Fun builds. Places in their role as "Fun toy for long term players to play with." and "Creative outlet." Can be very nice to wonder round, even if you don't actually say very much. (Or anything at all.)

Others. One-offs and other classes that I can't think of at the moment.

----

Personally I treat Places like I treat RP.* people can do whatever they want, subject only to the explicit rules regarding being a dick and public erotic play. If somebody wants to play batman, then that's up to them. I just won't read it myself.** Likewise with Places. If somebody wants to write whatever they want, then they can get and do it, subject only to similar basic standards. I'll probably not spend long looking around it though. I don't let it interfere with my Island RP, and i don't interfere with its.

Part of the impact of Places, is hopefully to make travel more interesting, have Places on the map. Sadly, as somebody (Rykar?) pointed out: There are so many interesting and exotic sounding Places*** that you reach overload pretty fast. That's a good point.

It has also been pointed out, that a lot of the more veteran RPers do most of their RP in Places. This means less interaction, meeting of new people. It also means less example setting to other RPers. I actually do agree with this. I think that the Island is getting more and more fractured socially, which isn't such a good thing. I think that veterans setting examples of how RP can be done is invaluable, and we don't get enough of it.Actually I don't do much myself. But that's because I haven't been RPing so much, not because I've been hiding away.

Having said that, a lot of veterans are leaving the Island altogether and collaborating on G-docs instead, so I don't think that you can blame Places for that, it's a bit more tricky. If anything, Places provide a place for them to do that without actually leaving the Island. Which is better than leaving altogether.

Monsters attacking Places. Could be interesting. And for some people, might be fantastic - just how they imagined their Place. But not for all of us. I spent ages building a Place up north of Ace High. Puzzle Land.**** It is, as the name suggests, one big puzzle (made up of many smaller puzzles.) I set it up, not for RP, but as a Place that people could find, look round, enjoy, and carry on. Once every three or four months, somebody does this.***** Yay! I only go back once every couple of months. Having to keep defending it would just be a pain in the arse. Really. If something like this comes along, then I very much hope that it's opt out. Or even opt in.

Places from inside outposts? Interesting. Bear in mind that this would make beds easily available in Squat Hole. What about this?

Clans can apply to build within outposts. Clan halls are quietly dropped (eventually.) This would require rather more cigs than out on the map (Hey! Prime real estate here you know!) A lot more. Enough to make it something else for clans to aim towards. Maybe don't allow this until they've got either full buffs, or at least 20 members. These may be partially open to the public if desired.Maybe make beds can be for clan members only if so desired.

This won't really address any of your complaints, but it will provide another benefit - something for clans to work towards as a group. Clan cohesion and all that. Also, another use for cigs. maybe more to provide communication between clan halls in different outposts. (No more than one per clan per outpost.)

Abandoned places? Owned by people who no longer have accounts? Maybe a cull might not be a bad idea there. keep the best ones. The ones that got kept before. Elephants and all that. I have wondered if we're accumulating homes of people no longer with us actually. Homes are good and all, but they're really for the builder and a few others. If they're not being used anymore, then I can see a case there.

What about having a variable cig cost on land squares, depending on how far they are from outposts/safe pathways? That will make people spread out a bit more, rather than clustering round outposts. Some of the uses of Places do rather involve people being able to get to them fairly easily. Not sure.

----

*In fact I tend to think of Places as a cross between role play and game play - a sort of third strand. That's clearly from a builders point of view.
**Though I might wonder if they're really old enough to be playing on the Island.
***Particularly round New Home, the first place that people see.
**** A plug!
***** Also, that it might inspire somebody else in the possibilities of programming. We live in hope.


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 12:00 PM UTC  
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Deleting places between the transition would be a useful thing, for those of us who want to cull some of our existing useless creations.

I think that as someone with more than one 'place' that is no longer being used, unfinished, and never going to be finished, I'd really like the option to trade in my 'place in a box' for I dunno.... a fancier hat?

-moo


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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Hairy Mary
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 12:57 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Twosocks+Monkey

Deleting places between the transition would be a useful thing, for those of us who want to cull some of our existing useless creations.

I think that as someone with more than one 'place' that is no longer being used, unfinished, and never going to be finished, I'd really like the option to trade in my 'place in a box' for I dunno.... a fancier hat?

-moo



Seconded. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Skronky Top secret HQ. I hardly ever go in it, neither does anybody else as far as I can tell. If that space was freed up, would anybody even notice let alone mind?


 
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Trowa
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 03:01 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

What about having a variable cig cost on land squares, depending on how far they are from outposts/safe pathways? That will make people spread out a bit more, rather than clustering round outposts. Some of the uses of Places do rather involve people being able to get to them fairly easily. Not sure.


This idea interests me. Property values could go up the closer you are to an outpost, or even the closer you are to other Places! For example, the cig cost for the first place on a square could be 100, so long as it's a minimum of, say, five squares away from an outpost, and then the cig cost for the second Place on that square could go up to 150, then 300, then 600 for the fourth Place. Meanwhile, the cost of plots around that square steadily increase, too, the more populated the first square gets. This is even assuming terms like "squares" and "plots" even still make sense on the new map.

I also feel we need a housing authority of some kind, someone who may not necessarily have to moderate the quality of places, but maybe keeps track of places where the owner has left the game and locked it up, essentially killing the usability of that square. Hey, property values have go down somehow, too!

Tying property values to the sizes of Places might be hilarious fun for those of us who like building giant mansions, resorts, and off-world dimensions. Size to be determined by rooms, length of descriptions, programs, and number of pages. Make people work to game the system!

Granted, this is all speculative based on the idea that land cost won't be tied to buying a single object in an outpost (Land Claim Stakes). I still like it as an idea.

Finally, hearing we'll get our Places back in a box to unpack wherever we want in S3 makes me happy. Cool Very happy.


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Tor NaGoth
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 04:10 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quote by: Twosocks+Monkey

Deleting places between the transition would be a useful thing, for those of us who want to cull some of our existing useless creations.

I think that as someone with more than one 'place' that is no longer being used, unfinished, and never going to be finished, I'd really like the option to trade in my 'place in a box' for I dunno.... a fancier hat?

-moo



Seconded. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Skronky Top secret HQ. I hardly ever go in it, neither does anybody else as far as I can tell. If that space was freed up, would anybody even notice let alone mind?



Thirded (sorry Sic)-

I was going to suggest it if someone else didnt. Or even just the option to tear it down for parts to be used elsewhere.


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 04:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quote by: Twosocks+Monkey

Deleting places between the transition would be a useful thing, for those of us who want to cull some of our existing useless creations.

I think that as someone with more than one 'place' that is no longer being used, unfinished, and never going to be finished, I'd really like the option to trade in my 'place in a box' for I dunno.... a fancier hat?

-moo



Seconded. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Skronky Top secret HQ. I hardly ever go in it, neither does anybody else as far as I can tell. If that space was freed up, would anybody even notice let alone mind?

Yes, I would mind. When I noticed, that is!

To me, a well-written Place that I've already read through is like a well-loved book sitting on my bookshelf. It makes me feel good every time I see it, even if I'm not always going to decide to take it down and read through it again. I remember what's in there, and I smile.

Well... that's not quite right. On the Island, it's really more like seeing a well-loved book on a public library shelf: it makes me smile to remember it, and I hope that many others will discover it too. If the librarians decided to cull their collection, I might not notice it was missing until I wanted to read it again and discovered it was gone... but then I would be grieved, feeling as if I'd lost a friend.

Skronky Top Secret HQ, for me, is part of the mythos of the Island. It helps define the "culture" of the Midgets, and fits in perfectly with the History of Idiocy: The Rise of Squat Hole that you just added to the Wiki. (Um, yes, player-written, not canon, but some things are so thoroughly, so convincingly done that unless CMJ directly contradicts them they inscribe themselves in my head as how it must be.)

That said, I think the authors of even the most excellent Places do have the right to withdraw them from circulation. So I'd support the place-in-a-box offering them the option to say, "No, I don't want this one to exist any more. Give me back some resources to do something new."

All I'd ask is that if there's a "Nuke-it" button, it will include a safety net question: "You SURE? Have you asked if people will miss it? This is irrevocable!" (I don't want to have to deal with the inevitable heartbroken wails from people who clicked the wrong thing by accident and lost three years' worth of loving elaboration or a whole clan's joint project.)


 
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Genevieve
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 05:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Even at this early stage, two things I can promise:
1. Your Places will be carried over.
2. Unspent SP is unspent SP. That'll be carried over too. I'd also like to give you back at least some of the SP you've spent, and as many lodge items as will still make sense in S3. Right now I'm thinking, well, we gave back all the SP that was accumulated in the year between S2 and S3 - I'm considering a year's worth or 25% of spent SP, whichever is greater. That may well change, and as Sessine said, it's not really worth considering until we're much closer to release date. Either way, now is still a good time to be donating, since you'll be able to spend your SP more than once. Smile



This makes me really happy. And I'm totally alright with a Place-in-a-box so long as I can pop these suckers on a beach somewhere because a port and a boat in the middle of the jungle seems silly.

I've just read so much really interesting discussion on places and I think it's worth talking about so I started a thread just to discuss that: http://enquirer.improbableisland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=31255

So we don't have to flood the rumors and speculations with opinions on the functionality of places and all that.

Dunno, figure it is worth discussion, lots of great points were raised.


 
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Docenspiel
 Thursday, October 03 2013 @ 07:44 PM UTC  
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Are Chronospheres going to stay on characters or are they going to be made account-wide?


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Matthew
 Sunday, October 06 2013 @ 07:17 AM UTC  
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Just weighing in to say that I am absolutely in love with the idea of Places actually being in outposts instead of out on the map, with a more expensive option to put a place on the map.

It would help the cluttering problem Temper mentioned, plus make the outposts feel more like player-built cities, with stuff to actually do instead of "this is the most popular chatroom".


 
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Sneaky
 Thursday, October 17 2013 @ 03:47 PM UTC  
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On the topic of races, I have an idea to better tie them into that 'lights-out' system from a few years back.

Instead of dedicated races for different forms, it's probably a good idea to tie physical forms to different body parts (each limb, the main body, and the head).

For example, everyone would start out as an average Human. Not too lean, not too fat, not too muscled, not too smooth. These things could be changed at character creation, certainly.

But, with enough Drive Kills (and certain encounters or items used), their left leg may grow furry, then eventually clawed (Kittymorph), they may gain a crude wooden-and-brass right leg with a wheel on the end (Robot) and their right arm may turn stunted, muscled, and fat (Midget). This is just a very crass example.

Each DNA aspect of each part is, in effect, a semipermanent 'equipment' or 'skill slot', as certain body parts grant certain 'opt-in' skills (ease of weapons, lowered stamina, increased damage with certain weapons). Humans naturally don't get much beyond what you'd expect a hardened warrior would get in real life (passive bonuses), but they might also gain a resistance to 'improbable' effects (at least, faster than a Kittymorph might, and 'at all' over perhaps a Zombie or Stranger).

As for the overarching race you are, that's determined by either the head or the body (which cannot be changed in between your Drive Kills). You get family bonuses (or at least 'not-penalties') for keeping your other five parts close to that 'species', but if you truly want (or don't want), your bits might change anyway (giving you something else to compensate).

---

No matter what form you take, you'll always be able to flail as normal.

If you were to replace both arms with wings or jet engines or what have you, you might lose the use of a firearm but you'll always be able to kick or headbutt or at least ram your body into the foe. Not always flashy or safe but it will get the job done.


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Denealus
 Sunday, October 20 2013 @ 09:27 PM UTC  
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Soooooo...trudged through 27 pages of posts just to make sure some of my things weren't already posted. That's a thing! Though I should go ahead and post some of these thoughts before I get them...

The last big topic seems to be the one about Places...

Personally, I love outposts and places. There's plenty of places I can ignore, but part of the draw of the Island for me is I'm not confined to "Outpost or map square." I can flesh out the description of a map square on the map sure. But it's always nice to be able to enter a place and have a waterfall that's right there or that field of mysterious flowers I keep running across. Or that scrap heap out in the middle of nowhere that's someone's pile. Or that one cave my character likes to dive into to find shelter.

Castles? Mansions? The like? People can build those if they want. To my character, they're either things he can go into or mirages. They aren't really there. They're transitory. It doesn't take away from my gameplay experience....

That said, one option hasn't been talked about yet. What about having the option of making your place private or public? That way things like Port Foley could be flagged as "This is something you can come to and explore and play and have fun" while places that are peoples own private hideaways only show when people want them to. That way people can get the creativity of their own places while still keeping the feel for other people that they're wandering a wild terrain of jungle. Could add the moderator check option for "making my place public" in that, but that way it doesn't stifle creativity. Bonus option if this is good: Some keys or settings available to make to make your place public for select people. I feel if doable this would add a lot to balance out both sides.

----------

Okay! Sub-topic, new things! Two questions/considerations:

One, with the talk about getting SP back and only having one account, I was curious how SP would be dealt with for alts? I've spent some SP on alternate characters just to give them a picture or coloring and titles and while maybe not a humongous amount, it was a sizeable enough deal for me to be concerned about rebuilding it. I can rebuild if I need to, but I don't earn all that much, so this is a consideration I haven't heard talked about. Will SP from alts be shifted to our main accounts if we're getting only one account or simply just lost?

Two: Has any thought been given to something such as starting "stats" for a character? Differentiating humans a bit. Maybe with a point buy that you can start all average or have a buff in one with a detriment in another, with a starting bonus/penalty to the average stamina cost for related actions...

For example (if implemented with the stuff we have with S2):

A high strength character has an easier time with an overweight backpack or with straight fighting.

A high intelligence character learns insults more easily and perhaps can find better scrap.

A high endurance character has better travelling costs and starts able to scale that mountain much easier.

A high luck character gets more Something Improbable events rather than monster encounters.

Etc.

Food for thought! Foggy ethereal concept that entered my brain!

Edit: Funky Island text editing conventions. Bleh. Sometimes gets a bit to remove from your head on autopilot!


 
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Thomas_III
 Wednesday, October 23 2013 @ 01:11 AM UTC  
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My thoughts on Places… (I’m posting this to both the places thread, and the general season 3 thread, so pardon me if anything seems like it’s coming out of right field.)

I don’t think that Places should have a rating system, as much as I’d like to see a Place of mine on such a system. I think it encourages people to focus heavily on these rated areas, and perhaps miss out on some really cool places on the map. I think that word of mouth is probably the best way to hear about good Places, as you’ll hear about it from friends and people who likely share similar interests with you. That’s the best way to learn what Places you’d like.

Places attached to outposts have some significant problems. One, it’s likely going to get very crowded, very quickly. Look at how many Places there are now, and then distribute them between the existing outposts. As I recall, I think I remember CMJ saying something about less outposts, so that creates a bigger issue of overcrowding. Secondly, some Places, like Stonehenge or the Barrens, represent complete cities, or even worlds. That’s a little different than just having an apartment built in a section of the outpost.

There are ways to do this, perhaps by making this the cheapest form of “Place” and it only amounting to a single room with a bed. Still, there are a lot of members on the site, and some people will likely get one of these “Places,” in addition to any other Places that they have, just so they have a quick place to sleep for NewDay.

I’ve also seen talk of keeping Places away from the area surrounding an outpost at the start of the season, and then moving Places there based on quality or popularity. While this makes the popular Places within easy reach, it also puts the less popular Places out of reach, making it less likely that anyone will randomly visit these potential hidden treasures. The popular would become more popular, and the forgotten would become more forgotten. This is especially true if people (read as “rooks”) know that the closer Places are the “better” Places, why would they even bother going into the others?

I love that we’ll be able to port our Places over to the new season, though I’ve seen a lot of legitimate concerns about how it may work, and how it could work better. People may want to make something new when they come over, or at least make some changes. I think I may have a solution for that.

Instead of just one “Place-in-a-box,” make two. One contains all of the rooms, pages and doors (maybe inventory and programming, as well), while the other holds the “work” that went into building it (the building units and raw materials). Thus, if you want to just slap everything down just as it is, then you “use” the first box (filling your job list), and then use the second box to actually do all of the work. However, if you want to maybe change some things (delete a room or two), then you simply just delete those jobs from the list before you start working on them, and you’ll have a little extra “manpower” left to do other jobs.

Notice, though, that I didn’t say that either of these should include a land stake. I think we should have to actually build up the cigs (or spend SP for them) before we have a stake to throw down. That will keep the map from being full from the start, focusing more on the new game and storyline for a bit before people slip into focusing on Place RP.

I also think it would be cool if these boxes were giftable. It may be hard to stomach, but some people may want to not keep up their place, but could give the “work” box to someone else to help with building. (I imagine that a few people would happily give up their own Places to make Stonehenge bigger.) Alternatively, they may want their Place to stay, but either don’t want to upkeep it, or would like it to be part of a larger Place. For instance, if someone has a Place that is a store or tavern, and think that it would make a fine addition to the Barrens (which is a small city location). They pass their boxes to me and I slip them into my own Place inventory, and then pop their buildings into my own Place. Their creation still exists, but as a larger whole.

Now, I think I’ve rambled on enough about what’s already been talked about, so I’ll move on to some other ideas that I have. I’d like to see a few alterations to building and programming.

In the job list, I’d like to be able to see what you’ve actually written, and have the option of going in to edit it before it’s built. It’s a pain in the butt when I realize that I made a typo in something that I’ve already set up in the job list. I either have to wait for the job to be done, and then go in to edit the room, again, or I have to figure out which job is the typo and delete it so I can make a new job with the right wording.

It’s just a small thing, but I’d like a “Set Memory Part” added to the C&Cs. It would make some programs so much easier, and would enable things that we can’t do now. I can understand if this can’t be set up, though.

And, the one thing that I want more than anything else…. The ability to change where doors go to. As it stands, making a door makes you pick two rooms that it goes to, and you can’t change them. So, if a room becomes useless, and there’s no other room idea to go there, then you have a useless door that you have to just hide. If you can change the door’s destinations, then no door becomes useless. The same could be true of Pages, since changing a room will often make a page pointless, especially if you can’t think of a new page to put there. If you could move the page to another room, and then change the description to fit what you need there.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Friday, October 25 2013 @ 07:33 AM UTC  
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Season 3's inventory system is almost done. All I've left to do before I can cross it off my list is make a single-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, and some gloves, and test it with all those things.

Yeah. Hands are the most complicated part. To simplify things a bit, you've got three hands.

No, bear with me.

You've got your left hand, your right hand, and your both hands, as separate inventory slots. Gloves go on your both hands. Small weapons can go in the left hand or the right hand and we're going to assume everybody's ambidextrous because WHY NOT. Some weapons need two hands, and they go in your both hands.

It's actually simpler this way, believe me.

I was doing this whole thing where I restricted which items could go in which slot, but it was turning out horrendously complicated (you want to have overrides, inclusion lists, exclusion lists and so forth) then I realized that players would WANT to put their pants on their heads.

WELL LET THEM PUT THEIR PANTS ON THEIR HEADS THEN. We'll just check where the item is before granting its benefits. No, your pants will protect neither your head nor your legs if they're in the wrong place on your body, but I'm not going to stop my players from being silly. It'd be like five minutes before someone said "CavemanJoe, why can't I put pants on my head?" and I'd be all like "Because I spent bloody hours putting in the code to stop you from doing that," and then they'd be all "Why" and I'd have to say "Whatever reason I had, it probably wasn't good enough."

IMPROBABLE ISLAND: PANTS-ON-HEAD EDITION

(I'm probably going to have to make an achievement or something for going through a whole level with your pants on your head)


 
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Sneaky
 Friday, October 25 2013 @ 12:37 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

You've got your left hand, your right hand, and your both hands, as separate inventory slots. Gloves go on your both hands. Small weapons can go in the left hand or the right hand and we're going to assume everybody's ambidextrous because WHY NOT. Some weapons need two hands, and they go in your both hands.



Hopefully all monsters would follow this system.

(They'd be like preset, disposable 'players'.)


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Denealus
 Friday, October 25 2013 @ 04:38 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe



IMPROBABLE ISLAND: PANTS-ON-HEAD EDITION



I wield my pants with both hands

Honestly, this is fantastically hilarious, thank you.


 
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