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Stone
 Thursday, October 31 2013 @ 08:31 PM UTC (Read 4930 times)  
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I think this is the correct forum for this, but if not please move me.

Now, this has been bugging me for a while, but as I haven't seen anyone else talk about it maybe I'm missing something, but...why are some of the items in Sheila's Shack o' Shiny so darn expensive? By the time you can afford it, you're basically done with the drive kill and don't actually need them. So...what are they, fluff? Or is there some way to earn a lot of money under level, say, 5--that I am unaware of?

Now, don't get me wrong, I know of the quest rewards--you can save the big one (25k) for a new cycle and buy something really nice right off the bat. No, I'm talking about items like the Cat launcher, Lightning Suit, and the Improbable Adaptive Armor. There's just no way you can afford stuff like that (save buying in-game money) before end-game levels where you obviously don't need them any more. So, what's the point?

Thanks in advance for your insight.


 
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Omega
 Thursday, October 31 2013 @ 09:37 PM UTC  
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The easiest way to get money for that sort of thing is to kill Titans. You can buy the most expensive weapon and armor in less than a gameweek if there are enough Titans to kill.


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Sneaky
 Friday, November 01 2013 @ 12:25 AM UTC  
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That doesn't change the fact that much of the gear bought at Sheila's is overpriced and extremely underwhelming.

The SPS series is a heavy offender here. Most of its benefits only last ten or fifteen rounds every Game Day, plus a heavy tax to buy the version to not give you the Stamina debuff.

Most of its benefits rely on... well, regenerating 5 HP a round.

If you weren't damaged that round, away it ticks. If you had way more HP than (10 * level), you wasted your dosh.


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Omega
 Friday, November 01 2013 @ 01:44 AM UTC  
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It's just like buying a designer pair of pants for three thousand dollars instead of regular pants that do the same thing for twenty dollars.


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Trowa
 Friday, November 01 2013 @ 05:23 PM UTC  
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Titans. Titans all the way. You can try saving interest, but once you get over 100,000 req, you need to start withdrawing to stay under in order to earn any more interest. That comes with its own risks, too, if you're 'boated with your pockets bulging. One curious thing, though: when you leave your bank account at 99,999 req, and earn, say, 5% interest, the New Day screen tells you you've earned 4,999 req, but in actuality, your account will be 5,000 req richer. Little rounding error there in your favor.


Another thing to consider - as you may be wondering now why anyone would even bother with Titans to earn so much req - is as your DK count grows, so does the amount of exp you need to level up. After 120 DK's, just going from Level 1 to Level 2 takes over 3,000 exp! And, the exp reward from regular Jungle monsters doesn't change, either! So these really expensive, high-powered weapons like Cat Launchers are some of the only saving graces for the high-climbing players to chew through the low levels as quickly as possible. Just imagine trying to fight through monsters that only award you 12 or 14 exp, and having to deal with multiple clicks per fight.


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Clueless
 Tuesday, November 05 2013 @ 11:07 AM UTC  
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Most of the prices are fairly reasonable. A few of them are straight up steals! The SPS series armors though are quite horrid as far as prices go, and not at all worth it. The ForceGen Mk2 seems extremely expensive to me as well, considering how broken the benefit of having a hug +def is when the chances of getting yourself riposting are included. Some oof the lower end weapons, before the catlaunchers, also seem strangely priced, and the spiderkitty launchers seem highly overpriced as well considering that they chew the hell out of you. Other than those exceptions I think the prices are all fairly reasonable.

As you have said, Stone, by the time you're ready to buy them you are about to DK. In these cases, you didn't even need them! So why care about buying them? They exist for when they are either required or extremely useful for achieving a goal, most notably Rank 6's, 7's, and Bastard! DriveKills. On these runs you may not be able to progress without buying the more expensive items.

I have run nothing but Bastard! Rank DKs for almost two years now, and I bought a catlauncher, spiderkitty launcher, or elephant gun for every single one. I often bought lightning suits to augment the catlaunchers, depending on the circumstances.


 
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Stone
 Tuesday, November 05 2013 @ 04:00 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Clueless


As you have said, Stone, by the time you're ready to buy them you are about to DK. In these cases, you didn't even need them! So why care about buying them? They exist for when they are either required or extremely useful for achieving a goal, most notably Rank 6's, 7's, and Bastard! DriveKills. On these runs you may not be able to progress without buying the more expensive items.

I have run nothing but Bastard! Rank DKs for almost two years now, and I bought a catlauncher, spiderkitty launcher, or elephant gun for every single one. I often bought lightning suits to augment the catlaunchers, depending on the circumstances.



Ok, that makes sense. But...how long did it take for you to save up for them? And what did you do? And how do you survive until you can actually afford to buy said equipment on those high rank difficulty levels? It takes more xp to level up as time goes on--but the pittance you get from killing low level enemies remains the same.

Killing titans to make money...well, I've actually killed one once, but it was a gamble on ripostes. I'm doing great until oops I'm dead. And that's with endgame equipment. I suppose this can be done safer as Improbability points in attack adds up?


 
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Clueless
 Tuesday, November 05 2013 @ 08:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Stone



Ok, that makes sense. But...how long did it take for you to save up for them? And what did you do? And how do you survive until you can actually afford to buy said equipment on those high rank difficulty levels? It takes more xp to level up as time goes on--but the pittance you get from killing low level enemies remains the same.

Killing titans to make money...well, I've actually killed one once, but it was a gamble on ripostes. I'm doing great until oops I'm dead. And that's with endgame equipment. I suppose this can be done safer as Improbability points in attack adds up?



Depends on circumstances. For example, I may during my current DK go slaughter a whole ton of Titans and save up.. Say 1.5-2mil req. Just before I DK I can buy out every OST in an outpost, then rapidly gift them out and DK. As fast as possible open OSTs or crates gifted from other players and sell them back until I can afford an elephant gun again. From bought out it should take 5-6 OSTs. Then of course I have to go kill about 13-17 titans to save req back up to do it all over again.

On the other hand I may not touch Titans until lv 14. There have to be enough of them, but I could go maul a good few until they are nearly dead, then rapidly hit lv15 and DK. Then I wait until someone else kills the Titans. I get the reward for the damage I did, and if I estimate it properly I will have enough money to buy my Elephant Gun.

Or I may simply go ahead and DK, still buying as many OSTs as possible before and selling some back after I DK, for far less req, then hunt Titans at lv1 with a sun gun and some basic cheap gear until I can afford an Elephant Gun.


I tend to use the third tactic primarily as I have ~+100 to my base hp, and more than enough attack to easily slaughter pretty much any Titan we see these days with a gargleblaster. Sure I get riposted plenty. I have a whole bunch of chronos, and I play Joker, so the Watcher loves me. I sometimes do a bit of the first and second tactic as well, if it is convenient, though not buying out OSTs prior to the DK means that it will take many more gifted OSTs expended to acquire the req I need.


All of them depend on speed at the end of the DK until the start of your next. I have had people sell a bunch of OSTs at my outpost in the 5 minutes between me buying them out and returning from the DK, and that really hurt me since it meant that the huge time investment in killing all of the Titans to buy out the OSTs was wasted and that I now had very little req to show for things. I have also had people finish off the Titans I was mauling before I could manage the DK. I tried to use this method when there were fewer Titan hunters online. Though in recent months many Titan hunters have been relatively inactive so it is a more viable method except that there are often not enough Titans on the map for them to be the sole source of income once they are finished off.


Gathering crates into one spot and going to grab them after you DK can work fairly well, but again, speed, because someone else may take one, a few, or even all of them should your stash be discovered. You can of course buy the eBoy's selection boxes in the Hunters Lodge to get two OSTs from each of them, and sell those, though this can be a rather pricey method. If I recall correctly they are 99 SP per box, so with the first method and buying out OSTs, you'd look at three bucks to buy the OSTs to sell. Of course that is for buying an Elephant Gun. The CatLaunchers are much cheaper, and so would take less.


How long any of these methods take depend on Titans. All on Titans during a bad week there may not be any spawning, or I might not catch them for some reason. During a good day I can get multiple DKs if I want to put in the time of suicidally hunting a thousand times. And of course all of these only work with a lowish base hp, otherwise the autohit weapons are useless. It is possible to use method 1 without killing Titans, by just killing a ludicrous number of monsters and dodging leveling, however that takes a very very long time.


When people say that Bastard! Rank DKs are all about preparation, this is what they mean, more or less. Or what whoever told them that meant.


 
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Trowa
 Tuesday, November 05 2013 @ 08:32 PM UTC  
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Thank you for that very comprehensive reply, Clueless. You put a lot of strategies into words that I've only been practicing, and couldn't explain myself without getting terribly long-winded and turned around repeatedly.

Titan hunters use the buddy system! (Or they ought to, anyway Razz )


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Clueless
 Tuesday, November 05 2013 @ 08:40 PM UTC  
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Thank you for that very comprehensive reply, Clueless. You put a lot of strategies into words that I've only been practicing, and couldn't explain myself without getting terribly long-winded and turned around repeatedly.

Titan hunters use the buddy system! (Or they ought to, anyway Razz )



Thank you Trowa! I'm up to 146 Bastard! Rank DKs, so I have heavily invested time and resources in finding the best ways to complete the DKs. So much time..

Also, I was wrong, the eBoy's Trader Selection Box, with two of every eBoy's item, is 195 SP, so that would be about six bucks to buy 6 OSTs from the hunters lodge. Not sure where I got 99 from, but maybe the selection box had been on sale the last time I looked at it.

Titan hunters really need a Titan dedicated Skype chat or something, for coordinating. It would be much better than distracts to individuals or posting on the map squares.


 
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Stone
 Wednesday, November 06 2013 @ 05:55 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Clueless


Depends on circumstances. For example, I may during my current DK go slaughter a whole ton of Titans and save up.. Say 1.5-2mil req. Just before I DK I can buy out every OST in an outpost, then rapidly gift them out and DK. As fast as possible open OSTs or crates gifted from other players and sell them back until I can afford an elephant gun again. From bought out it should take 5-6 OSTs. Then of course I have to go kill about 13-17 titans to save req back up to do it all over again.

On the other hand I may not touch Titans until lv 14. There have to be enough of them, but I could go maul a good few until they are nearly dead, then rapidly hit lv15 and DK. Then I wait until someone else kills the Titans. I get the reward for the damage I did, and if I estimate it properly I will have enough money to buy my Elephant Gun.

Or I may simply go ahead and DK, still buying as many OSTs as possible before and selling some back after I DK, for far less req, then hunt Titans at lv1 with a sun gun and some basic cheap gear until I can afford an Elephant Gun.



First of all, let me thank you for the detailed steps you take. It's very interesting to see how the pro's do these things. Now, I have some comments/questions...

Your first option doesn't really work for me. I have donated in the past, but I can't afford to do it that often, and certainly not for something as transient as a temporary cash influx. And even if I did, I don't really talk to other people in-game, so I have no friends I can do that with. I can certainly see how it would be effective, though.

The second seems to be my best option, which I can't really do until I get some more attack points. Right now I'm pretty evenly divided between attack and defense, though I've stopped increasing defense for the last few DK's and am planning on solely upgrading attack for the foreseeable future. I think I'm at +14 attack at the moment. The only problem I see (besides not being able to do it yet) with this method is it relies on Titans actually being up and about, and you being in a position to take advantage of it. Which all falls withing planning and timing I suppose.

Your last option I may be misunderstanding, but it sounds like it also relies on real money to buy OST's that don't disappear with your DK, yes? Which, again, is unfortunately out of the question.

Edit: Actually I could probably do the the third option sans the OST's by using the Dan's Quest final reward, but again I think I need more attack points to pull it off.

I'll have to start keeping my eye on Titans when I get near 14-15 from now on. Thanks for the help! Smile


 
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Clueless
 Wednesday, November 06 2013 @ 08:12 PM UTC  
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Indeed, method 2 was my mainstay from the time I begun doing high rank DKs until I had enough attack to make 1 easier. I swapped to 1 because of the number of times I had Titans get killed while I was hunting the drive. Method 3 takes the most DKs for it to work well because you are deprived of the atk and hp that you would have at higher levels.

Method 3 uses OSTs to generate starting cash to buy a good anti Titan weapon (higher +% attack unlocked), pay for gargleblasters, helmet/gloves/boots, and repellent & ZAPs. Depending how high you drive the price up and how many OSTs you can sell it may also be a healthy chunk towards buying your actual DKing gear.

I do not know what circumstances you are in right now though, as I do not know your name on the Island and thus can not look up your # of DKs, current rank, and game race.


The Danquest reward is quite nice for starting cash as well. But again, Titan hunting at very low levels without quite a few DKs can be a hassle. It DOES work though, as long as you focus on weaker Titans.

Also, the Titan Hunting googledoc, by Jakell and Maniak

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14tpCdDQx3pkLQG31jVU0DqYX3i7Z2YtcjtsAUfnzTX4/edit


 
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Stone
 Wednesday, November 06 2013 @ 10:40 PM UTC  
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You can see my character info through my forum information, I have a link to my in-game bio page there. I'm at 27 DK's at the moment. Very nice guide, I bookmarked it for future reference.

I suppose I will have to start running chemical pack implants when I do a run with the intention of Titan hunting. The extra cash I get from Spatial Awareness as I'm leveling will be missed, but it does sound more useful in that endeavor.


 
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Clueless
 Wednesday, November 06 2013 @ 10:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Stone

You can see my character info through my forum information, I have a link to my in-game bio page there. I'm at 27 DK's at the moment. Very nice guide, I bookmarked it for future reference.

I suppose I will have to start running chemical pack implants when I do a run with the intention of Titan hunting. The extra cash I get from Spatial Awareness as I'm leveling will be missed, but it does sound more useful in that endeavor.



Ahhh, for a rank 6 you don't really need anything crazy expensive. Not quite for a 7 either, though the lightning suit may be very useful for you. A plasma gun and forcegen ought to do very well on those ranks though.


 
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Stone
 Thursday, November 07 2013 @ 02:26 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Clueless

Quote by: Stone

You can see my character info through my forum information, I have a link to my in-game bio page there. I'm at 27 DK's at the moment. Very nice guide, I bookmarked it for future reference.

I suppose I will have to start running chemical pack implants when I do a run with the intention of Titan hunting. The extra cash I get from Spatial Awareness as I'm leveling will be missed, but it does sound more useful in that endeavor.



Ahhh, for a rank 6 you don't really need anything crazy expensive. Not quite for a 7 either, though the lightning suit may be very useful for you. A plasma gun and forcegen ought to do very well on those ranks though.



I have a lightning gun at the moment which seems to be making life easier. As for the force generator, I used to love it but more recently it's been giving me enough ripostes so that I die at least once every new day. I was recommended the lightning suit for higher difficulty ranks, which at level 7 (going on 8 for the third time because I keep losing xp from failboating) I'm really only finally starting to be able to afford after saving up and traveling all over the place doing Dan's Quests. Which led to the creation of this thread, I suppose.


 
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Maniak
 Friday, November 08 2013 @ 02:02 PM UTC  
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Thanks for linking to the Titan Hunting Gdoc, Clueless.

Obviously, it's very effective to buy OSTs where they are expensive and sell them where they are cheap and then do the reverse after you DK. But there's also some money to be made from simple eBoy trading without manipulating the market beforehand. For instance, buy grenades in NH and sell elsewhere. Or, if you're a Joker, buying grenades and selling them as Improbability Bombs. There are like, six or seven methods to transfer req between DKs.

Stone, if you're at 27 DK's, you're more than ready for Titans. Get yourself drunk, get a Sun Gun and give it a try. Your implant of choice isn't an important factor; it takes a lot of time to get the full benefits of the chemical pack and they don't transfer across DK's.


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Stone
 Tuesday, November 12 2013 @ 05:29 PM UTC  
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I think I'm going to start rolling kittymorphs from now on. That should be able to get me through the lower levels on higher ranks with less hassle. Jokers are really nice, but it's such a crapshoot on stats, and it feels like I get a bunch of days where I basically just have to waste a new day due to bad stats.

@Maniak--You know, I keep forgetting about converting grenades to improbability bombs! I've actually tried to do that once or twice, but I was never much of a marketeer. Neutral

But you're right, I should probably be able to do that at this point. I will roll a kittymorph next and use a DanQuest reward as captial to pick me up a sun gun and a gargleblaster, should luck favor me.


 
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