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 Larger Clans, please
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dizzyizzy
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 03:44 AM UTC  
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Eek!

I.... *shudder* I'm sorry....


 
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Daedalus
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 01:57 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe



So I've written no less than three fully-working Mount Accessories systems, each time realizing just after completing them that I'd better actually make some damn Mounts to accessorize.

This is like what happened with Creature Targets, only even more depressing.



Eek!

Wow ... that's gotta hurt.

Not sure if it helps, but ... we love your work, CMJ, so ... don't let the rapid evolution of good ideas into even better ideas get you down.

D.


The lunatics are taking over the asylum! Come with?
 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 02:24 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Tyr

Really? Only ten percent? So a 22nd member would cost you 220 cigs?

I was expecting something more like 400 for the second.

I realize I'm not a normal player by any means, but I could buy 5 slots, on my own, outright. And have almost enough for a 6th. The clans that want more spots are the clans with 20 people in them - 20 active people (or mostly active). And if they've been around for a while, they probably have cigs to burn. A 25 person clan would be child's play. A 30 person clan, maybe a bit of work, but could be achieved pretty quickly. I'll give you that a 100-member clan would be hard, but...I think you're overestimating how difficult it will be for people to get cigs together. Especially if they've got someone willing to run some Rank 7's or Bastards.

Or if they're talky.

I have to agree with Tyr, here. The cost should be doubling for each additional space. That way, a clan will be able to add one or two more spaces if they really need to make room for someone who's important to them, but we won't see the return of mega-clans.

Roughly twenty people has turned out to be a good size. Changing the limit to a soft limit is a very nice enhancement, one that will save clan leaders a bit of agonizing, I'm sure. But "more people!" does not endlessly make for a better clan! It makes for a far lonelier clan, where it becomes harder and harder for everyone to know and be comfortable with everyone else.


 
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Cousjava
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 04:57 PM UTC  
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I've been thinking on this for a while, and I've finally decided to throw my hat into the ring. Having weighed up all the sides of the argument* I agree with Sessine and Tyr. Smaller clans can mean more differentiation between clans, which I think would be useful. Making people choose which clan they join would improve the system by getting like people together for many, different purposes. If you made it so the clans had choose buffs from a range, but couldn't get them all,** i.e. stamina buff for building & decorating for RP clans, increased attack and defence for DK clans, so that when you joina clan you decide whether you're more bothered about getting masses of DKs or interacting with others. Smaller clans also means more different roleplaying styles, so you could get one clan of mad***, zany people (like DICE) or one of foul midgets (pure Skronkys) or of sloths.****

____________________________________

*On a set of balanced scales, no less

**I think this has been mentioned before.

***Even by improbable island standards

****I just thought sloths had to have clan. Like ostriches.


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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Tyr
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 06:17 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Cousjava

I've been thinking on this for a while, and I've finally decided to throw my hat into the ring. Having weighed up all the sides of the argument* I agree with Sessine and Tyr. Smaller clans can mean more differentiation between clans, which I think would be useful. Making people choose which clan they join would improve the system by getting like people together for many, different purposes. If you made it so the clans had choose buffs from a range, but couldn't get them all,** i.e. stamina buff for building & decorating for RP clans, increased attack and defence for DK clans, so that when you joina clan you decide whether you're more bothered about getting masses of DKs or interacting with others. Smaller clans also means more different roleplaying styles, so you could get one clan of mad***, zany people (like DICE) or one of foul midgets (pure Skronkys) or of sloths.****
]



But a lot of clans aren't "an RP clan" or "a DK clan." Some do both, and are happy doing both. DICE has had several members who've gotten 100 dks or more. You've got to get teh cigs to fund the building projects somehow, right?

When I first started playing, I thought of myself as someone who played the game - I DKed. That was my strength. I did some RP on the side, but I didn't think of myself as a writer. But then I was given a choice between QQQ and DICE. I was leaning toward QQQ, because they were the big DK clan at the time. And I said as much, to Pinche and Z. They both told me "We don't just do one thing. QQQ is trying to RP more, and DICE is trying to DK more. That won't help you, bucko."

Neither of them said bucko.

A clan shouldn't have to choose what kind of clan they're going to be, and then follow a path that locks them into it. People change. Goals change. And what happens if that DK powerhouse clan suddenly decides to retire and build a gym/donut stand? Should they all leave the clan, and join one with building buffs?

A clan isn't just a clan. It's the people in it. The people affect what a clan is like and what its focus is. And it's a fact that people come and go, and a clan will change over time. People should determine a clan, not the buffs.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 07:06 PM UTC  
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Okay, I've been hanging back on this thread -- and now I see that the larger clan thing has been implemented, and of course, this is wonderful!

Just a few things re: the SWEET Network, since it's been mentioned.

a) The purpose for the Network was to continue the idea of "what happened if you threw open the doors to anyone?" IE, space for rookies, and established players alike. This was what SWEET was when I encountered it in S1, and I liked it. A lot of other clans were cliquey, but SWEET rewarded me for being an active newb, and it made me feel good. When I inherited the leaderpost from Cheshire, and things swung into S2, I wanted to continue the same legacy established by CSG, Cheshire, and their forebears.

Well, obviously, the come-one-come-all approach filled up S2 SWEET v. quickly. So, then we (and no, I did NOT do all this stuff myself; I had a lot of help from S1 SWEETers) created SUGAR, SPICE, SOUR & SAVOR in that order. Those filled up. Then we introduced the "activity requirement," to stop deadwood from piling up -- but, being SWEET, we were pretty darned lenient about all that. And still are.

b) With respect to Bakemaster's comments (and v. kind words, thank you) re: the Network not spawning unique clans. No fewer than two clans have spun off from us, including SPARC & TYPES, who wanted to go in different directions, and did, and are successful for it, and I salute them.

c) We've taken some heat for our "cookie cutter" approach, and candidly, I strongly disagree that that's been the case at all. What joins the clans (besides coordination, open enrollment and a certain look and feel to our MOTD/Clan Desc) is the people in them. We have some folks in each clan that are damned passionate about THEIR clan -- the Network is secondary. For instance, Stumour loves SOUR; Ashtu & Alik really seem to enjoy SUGAR; Yrk has been an avid SWEETer since the beginning; Yaisa, Rabbit et. al. are passionate about SPICE; And Shiloh (who has largely taken charge of SAVOR) says they always felt closest to that clan. These are just anecdotal accounts.

d) The other thing is clan rotation. Because we have some central coordination -- folks from one Network clan can join (temporarily, or whatnot, it's their choice) another Network clan easily (maybe it's to help with buffs; maybe it's to try another flavor), this allows players to find the right mix of friends, without losing the friendships they may have had in the prior clan.

Ultimately, the unique flavor of each clan comes from the people within them -- not from me making sure we're using the right color codes in the MOTD, or that the format is becoming unreadable.

Throughout this experience, I've learned a couple of things:

1) The activity requirement generally ensures that clans remain around 90% of their total capacity.
2) I've only ever had to pull the "jerk lever" on two folks, in two seasons.
3) Folks that want to do stuff that the clan specifically isn't doing will find a way to do it; whether by forming their own clan, or forming close ties with friends, or another (full perhaps?) clan that is doing what they want to do.
4) The open enrollment approach works, and is a great way to discover and cultivate new players to the Island. I thank my lucky stars that it has allowed me to meet so many great people.
5) Regardless of total clan capacity, there are really fun ways to create networks and associations that are more than the sum of their parts; And in doing so, are constantly surprising and stimulating to me.

In any case, those are my thoughts on the SWEET Network.
I was proud to become a part of SWEET. I'm proud of the people in it.
I'm especially proud of what we have built together in Season 2.
I can't wait to do more.
For me, at least, it's the best job on the Island.

Much love,


~CTP


 
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Silcatra
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 08:49 PM UTC  
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Quote by: crashtestpilot

b) With respect to Bakemaster's comments (and v. kind words, thank you) re: the Network not spawning unique clans. No fewer than two clans have spun off from us, including SPARC & TYPES, who wanted to go in different directions, and did, and are successful for it, and I salute them.


I'd like to take one moment to correct this: TYPES is not a SWEET Network spin-off clan, even though most of our initial leadership did originally come from SUGAR, with one member from SWEET and the sixth from ROGUE. We are a clan unto ourselves and have shaped ourselves differently. But I do thank you for recognizing TYPES success, CTP. Smile


On topic... I don't like the idea of increasing clan sizes. Something about it doesn't sit well with me; whether that stems from good players passing up smaller clans to join an expanded bigger one, having a smaller pool of good newbies to try and pull in, or from the risk of not having a clan so tight-knit as some currently are, I'm not sure. Twenty is a good size, plenty of opportunity to get to know everyone.


 
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Buddleia
 Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 08:52 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
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Quote by: Cousjava

Smaller clans also means more different roleplaying styles, so you could get one clan of ... sloths.****


Sloth already has pretty much his own clan. He's a JERK and proud of it.


Improbable Reference Links - goo.gl/MRBnb -------------- Land Registry (map of Places) ---- goo.gl/bpkRR
 
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crashtestpilot
 Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:44 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
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@Silcatra: I withdraw the term "SWEET spin-off clan" as being overly general.

As you said, many members came from SUGAR which remains a SWEET Network clan.
But you said it better, and went into more detail about TYPES origins. I was trying to do too many things in that paragraph, and used an overly broad brush. I apologize for any offense given.

My take on the whole thing (in conversations with Xane) was that Xane wanted to branch off, and in doing so, struck a chord with a lot of folks in the Network. My point in even mentioning it was to illustrate the idea that yes, the SWEET approach isn't all things to all people, and that as a result prominent figures in the Network chose to do other things. That's the way it SHOULD be, at least IMO.

But in any case, the fact remains that TYPES is a successful clan, with its own unique flavor -- it brings a lot to the Island.

Of course, I miss the ex-SUGAR folks a great deal. But I love what TYPES is doing as a clan, and wish every success.

All my best,

~CTP


 
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Bakemaster
 Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 04:16 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
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Anyone have an update regarding the member cap increase cost algorithm?

It seems odd to me that the ONLY sentiment expressed in this thread regarding cost, since the functionality was implemented, has been "that's way too cheap!" but nobody has mentioned the price changing... is there an issue with resetting/refunding for clans that have already bought multiple cap increases? Has it already been changed? Is it not going to be changed?


Unofficial Improbable Island out-of-character chat is at irc.foonetic.net, channel #iisland - come on by!
 
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